Clients say the darndest things. Like Dan mentions, this could be an episode of Family Feud. This week the guys wrestle with the hard and sometimes weird things that clients ask or request. Along the way we drink a little and even provide some good answers to these head-scratchers. Imagine that? So how do you answer the question, "How much is an 8x10?" Or, "Can I see all of the photos you took?" Or even, "What if I only want to buy one pitcher?" Listen and find out. And be sure to listen to the end as we pooled our money and hired a celebrity to help boost subscriptions.
Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play". And don't forget to subscribe!
Your Hosts:
Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com
Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com
Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner. Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
www.ccphotocoach.com
MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.
Clients say the darndest things. Like Dan mentions, this could be an episode of Family Feud. This week the guys wrestle with the hard and sometimes weird things that clients ask or request. Along the way we drink a little and even provide some good answers to these head-scratchers. Imagine that? So how do you answer the question, "How much is an 8x10?" Or, "Can I see all of the photos you took?" Or even, "What if I only want to buy one pitcher?" Listen and find out. And be sure to listen to the end as we pooled our money and hired a celebrity to help boost subscriptions.
Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play". And don't forget to subscribe!
Your Hosts:
Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com
Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com
Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner. Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
www.ccphotocoach.com
MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.
Recorded live from the International Space Station. I wonder what this button does. It's the photo happy hour podcast. Hey, and welcome everybody on your photo happy hour bartender Michael Mowbray I've got a shaker full of insight to pour into a photography cosmopolitan. Ooh.
Carl Caylor :shaken not stirred.
Michael Mowbray :Exactly. Joining me behind the bar, Dan Frievalt and Carl Caylor.
Dan Frievalt :What's up, everyone?
Michael Mowbray :Hey, folks. So in case you're joining us for the first time, the premise of the podcast is we're three professional photographers who know a little bit about photography and we get together and we drink and the more we drink, the more we know. And hopefully we lay down some great knowledge and wisdom and if nothing else, hopefully we're stupid and funny. Anyway, I put my money on stupid and funny. Are we going with that too?
Dan Frievalt :Yes. Good, good odds with that one
Michael Mowbray :stupid and maybe funny as a goal. All right. So we have a topic every week. And the topic this week is things clients say, hmm.
Dan Frievalt :It sounds like a family feud. And survey says somebody says that's very
Carl Caylor :true. Dan, would you like to pick door number one, door number two or door number three,
Michael Mowbray :whatever happened to Monty Hall and let's make a deal. It's good to trade your Corvette for what's behind door number two. Yes, I would money. It's a donkey.
Carl Caylor :Yeah, we should run our sessions that way. It's like, Oh, you can either do this or that. What do you choose? Oh, you have the 15 minute Express session.
Dan Frievalt :In a junkyard,
Carl Caylor :would you like to trade that? I like
Michael Mowbray :I like it better for our sales sessions. Would you like package whatever packages behind door number two? Oh, you got our Super Deluxe package? You amazingly everybody picks that.
Unknown Speaker :Right, right,
Carl Caylor :I was gonna be fun to have a price list that there's no uniformity to it, you know that it you choose it just like any other product that you buy, like a car has different levels of of options on it or you know, from the standard to the the premium grade. And so I would go through the images, which some images are better than others. I mean, let's face it, some of the things we do are better than other things during the person the session and say well, okay, I'm going to put this in this tier. Okay, so these images here I think are the best. So this is the level five star. So if you want those images it cost this much if you want these images. Oh, that's just is simple you know little little amounts of money but that probably won't go over very good.
Michael Mowbray :I have literally toyed with this thought where there's no pricing whatsoever. They tell me what they want. And they name a price but here's the catch. If I don't like the price, they can't buy it. Oh, yeah. You want a 16 by 24 and canvas. I'll pay 150 Nope.
Carl Caylor :Price.
Michael Mowbray :Now, now, you're a 20 by 24 my friend. Yeah.
Carl Caylor :Up to a 60 inch print. Game guys.
Michael Mowbray :You see how this works? You got to go high on the first one. Anyway, going back to the topic things clients say
Unknown Speaker :oh, we have a topic. Oh, do we do Oh okay. Do
Michael Mowbray :topic. You guys want to? I've got a few here but you guys want to want to throw out yours because you're probably taking what I've written down already.
Carl Caylor :So probably we've always heard the the person tell us that you know, what was always the first question usually it's on the phone before you get even into everything. I would just read by pen. Well, and there's ways of combating that but but then it escalates usually, and it's usually the father who comes in during the during the sales part and says, Well come on it but totally costs $2 and 80 cents at Walmart. Like, you know, that's true. And of course everyone has analogies that they use and they have while $1 bills the same size as $100 bill and it's just what's put placed on was printed on it and all that, but I have more of my favorite stories was a friend of ours up in in Houghton, Michigan up in the Cuban peninsula up here and up and he had a lot had his own lab was way, way, way
Dan Frievalt :further north and new like that
Carl Caylor :is it's like two hours further north of me home.
Michael Mowbray :Right moves to work up there. Yeah.
Carl Caylor :Well, honestly behind the moose Anyway, you don't want to ride the moose, but you know, you can harness a little buggers. And anyway, so he had a lab at the time. And so he he goes, I'll be right back. He walked downstairs into his lab, took a sheet of eight by 10 paper out, ran through his processor before it got all the way through it, he pulled the cover off. And as soon as it came out of the bleach, he yank that paper up, walk upstairs, dripping all the way up to the floor all the way up and he handed it to the customer and said, Here you go, that's $2 and 60 cents. And the guy's like, as you said, that's the same piece of paper. It's a photographic piece of paper that costs $2 and 60 cents by Tom I run it through this much but if you want to image on it That's my price list is four and I'm going, Oh man, I wish I had allowed to so I could do that once or twice, just to, you know, tell the client because it's always it's hard for me to hold back and not say to a client at some times in your face, you know, I mean is it is hard for you guys not to just like overreact sometimes.
Michael Mowbray :I always maintain my professionalism and then, you know, around like my work like we do here, but
Carl Caylor :yeah, exactly. But it'd be so cool to be able to do that. I mean, just once. I'd love to be able to say that. I know.
Michael Mowbray :I know. You'd regret it forever, but it'd be Oh, absolutely. for that moment. might be worth it before I retire. I like to do the whole redirect them thing on that too, and always works out well for me is, you know, because how much is an eight by 10 on the phone? And people don't they don't know what they're what they're asking for because they don't buy photography everyday. They don't always go out and seek out professional photography, so they don't know what to ask. So that's, that's the question they ask. And that's their frame of reference. So I like to find out the reason why they're Calling. So when I asked that, and I said, Well, I'll be happy to talk about pricing. But can I ask what kind of session you were looking for? What's the occasion? And then you'll find out. It's my mom and dad's 50th anniversary. I'm like, Oh, okay. So, you know, is the entire family getting together? Oh, yeah, my four brothers and sisters are coming into town with their families. Okay. Now we went from an eight by 10 to we've got four or five families in three generations. And you know, we're talking 40 inch print, maybe bigger, we're talking gift prints along with that. So it just says, as a tip for everybody listening is don't get bogged a don't get bogged down into the pricing question right away, because then turns into talking about commodities, like we're just talking about, find out the reason for it. And then you start to start to find out why they even picked up the phone or send an email and that's going to have a lot more emotion tag, two, a two, and it's also going to give you the information you need to come back with Proper pricing? Because ain't no way I would sell those folks and eight by 10 for a group of 35 people.
Carl Caylor :Yeah, it would just be wrong.
Michael Mowbray :Excellent. Absolutely.
Dan Frievalt :Yeah. And, you know, I don't get that question that often. I get maybe the question more about digital files, you know, eight by 10 was years ago now everyone's Oh, do you have digital files what to include and and i don't even get that is often either. And I think it's because the way I have my my website set up for number one, and for two, just the branding and the images that you put out there, I think people maybe you start to build this brand. Well, you know, this isn't the cheapest photographer, I kind of know that going in. So they're more calling like, I think this might cost me a lot. How much is it gonna cost me you know, and they're okay that to invest because they see the value in it. And I think that's key as well as to trying to void some of these questions by by what you put out there how you I know we talked about this in an earlier episode too but identifying your ideal client and then every all your branding all your marketing everything that goes out there is is directed in that direction or in so that client picks up on it and then you're getting qualified leads so
Michael Mowbray :I thought was the pop up ad on your website that pops up and says don't even ask about digital
Dan Frievalt :design What does it mean you know if you're asking for a digital is it automatically redirect you to someone else?
Michael Mowbray :are a little letter comes out of your screen, but well maybe we won't name competitors. We won't we won't name names. I used to do that by the way. You get you get that weird phone call and you're like, No, you don't want to work with this person. So you refer them to somebody else and it's like to overtake you off recently.
Unknown Speaker :Oh sure.
Michael Mowbray :Oh, you need to call Yeah.
Carl Caylor :That was just because of the diaper incident. So yeah,
Michael Mowbray :well, that's a whole nother story.
Dan Frievalt :We can't keep referencing that stuff
Carl Caylor :out of my handle. You can't unsee some things. Anyway, but
Dan Frievalt :yeah, what like Michael said, it's like redirecting cert to sell your, your experience, you know, I sell what the experience what we're going to paint the picture of what we're going to do that day, which helps justify the pricing. Now, another thing that I was going to do this year, but now with COVID, that kind of switched the whole gears with that is not even putting pricing on my website and say, you know, in order to, you know, I don't know come up with whatever wording but the whole point was to get them into my studio for a consultation, which I used to do, and I kind of got away from that. And I and I realized that through the years that I've had seniors Come to me and really, you know, before the session and even after talk about the experience and professionalism, which I kind of laugh because I'm like, I don't know how professional I am. I guess I'm professional.
Michael Mowbray :Oh, I think maybe things out there. Yeah,
Dan Frievalt :yeah. Yeah. Compared maybe to other things. Yeah, I'm light hearted. I'm easygoing. So sometimes I feel like that's not when that's not professional, you know, when I look at maybe what a other professional a lawyer or whatever, you know, I wear flip flops in, in, in shorts and a T shirt, you know, so that's, you know, but I act professional, I talk professional. So I just happen to wear flip flops and have a long goatee. So,
Michael Mowbray :you talk you talk real professional. Yeah, take good pictures. So yeah, you know,
Dan Frievalt :but the other benefit or the other unique selling point I have or benefit I have is I have a brick and mortar studio when when a lot of photographers don't. So that adds professionalism and I think I really need to embrace that. And show that because that that adds value and adds professionalism and so if they're just on the phone and comparing, you know, images, images or price surprise what makes me stand out i think you know that I want to get to know that their senior, their client or their daughter and senior daughter, son senior and get to know what they like what they do their hobbies and how we can incorporate that show them products and albums. Then less questions come up about pricing or digital files or eight by 10s. They see the wall portraits they see all that so yeah,
Michael Mowbray :what if your studio is not made out of brick and mortar but it's made out of like sticks and mud? vinyl siding?
Dan Frievalt :Or, or a tent up up north? Carl, you know, it's good to know what's
Michael Mowbray :out there. Here's a good one for you guys. And I've got an answer for this ball. Throw it out at you. And I haven't gotten this one a lot, but it's weird when it comes in. I know you took more pictures. Can I see all of them how Do you address that?
Unknown Speaker :Yeah, easily.
Carl Caylor :No. I'm just I'm showing you the best things I'm not going to show things with you closing your eyes and you Tommy stick and half out and or if you happen to swatting a fly or mosquito or something, things that aren't on are not saleable. I don't show you there's it's a waste of our time, pause. It's just like any like a magician. You know, you don't, you don't show the things that don't work out. Well, you show the things that are polished and well done. And still a mystery. But that's, you know, and I don't really don't get that too much. I I see that more in my workshops than in my business actually. Because I have, you know, 2025 students at a lot of my workshops and they'll be photographing miles and the first thing they do as soon as they get done taking it. Group, they show that back to the To the model, and I'm like, you know, we have to restate this every time. Please be careful when you do that. Make sure that it is solid work before you do that, because you know, darn well, if you get it back, you look at your computer, and all of a sudden you realize it's out of focus, or their IRAs have shot, he didn't notice a small screen on the back of the camera. But when you look at it for real at 100%, you notice that it's all wrong. And and now they're not going to see it. They're expecting to see that if you showed it to him. So I would just offer that up as advice if you are the kind of person that shows people that are and people are going to ask you, well, you took all these other things. I don't usually hear that because I you know, I'm only showing you the best of the best. But if you show them something specifically, it better be nailed because otherwise they are going to ask for it.
Michael Mowbray :Yeah, and that's that's part of the part of the answer. I give people on that too. The few times I've gotten out as part of the processes, you know, trusting me trusting my eye trusting my expertise to kind of comb through all the images that we took to make sure that we're only showing the best because, you know, why would you want to buy something that's inferior that's, you know, got a blink in it or it's a, it's pretty much a duplicate of another one, I'm going to look at those, I'm going to pick the best one. So you really are seeing the best of the best and the rest are tossed. So it's not even not even an option for you. And the side tangent to that is if people are asking that question, this is a big red flag that goes up for me. The few times I've gotten it is are they not seeing good work or they're not seeing what they expected to see? And thank God and as I kind of dug deeper with with the few times I've gotten this, it's no no, there's I know you took a lot so I just I just like to see everything. It's like Well, no, actually you don't. I took I took 425 images on Those three hours session, and I'm showing you at so and that's the best ad. Yeah,
Dan Frievalt :yeah. And a lot of times what I have found through the years of hard knocks of running a photography business is trying to answer some of these questions before they become questions. So, you know, reinstating this before the session having email information in over and over, tell them over and over again, we're going to pick the best the best when you come in and place your order. This is what you're going to see I'm going to get rid of blanks. I'm going to get rid of whatever I'm just going to show you the best the best. I say that right as we're setting up the order appointment, right when we're done with the session, you know, even during the session, I'm like, Hey, we have all the same shots. Let's try something crazy. It may not work and you know what, if it doesn't work, no one's gonna see it. I won't even show it to you. Let's just let's try something. You know. And so, yeah, hitting you know, some of those things before they come. A question helps them to kind of remember they'd be like, Oh, yeah, you did say that. So I know Seeing the best of the best.
Carl Caylor :And you know what, when you tell people that you, you're actually in their mind, they're going, Oh, this guy wants to work more with me. He wants to try new things and, and, or they're really becoming more custom to me by by saying that, you know, you I just want to try something with you. Okay, now we're not standard anymore. We're a custom product. So that's kind of cool. Yeah, we're being creative.
Unknown Speaker :And we do we are. Exactly,
Dan Frievalt :yeah. And, and so yeah, through the years, you know, you know, some of these questions are gonna come up. And so how can you get ahead of it? You know, and hopefully some of these suggestions will help you so that you didn't, you don't have to go through it like we did over the years and learn the hard way like, oh, okay, I'm never doing that again.
Michael Mowbray :There was like No, no book that we bought that had all these answers in it or there was a bloke who any YouTube video or whatever. Super eight movie
Carl Caylor :beta
Michael Mowbray :beta plays. That's the second time I've mentioned LaserDisc. And this me not we got way ahead of ourselves. One of the most important things we talk about every episode is what are we drinking? Oh, yes.
Dan Frievalt :Yes, well, good point because I was running late. And so I wanted to make a mohito but I settled for the quick drink which is a Chardonnay.
Carl Caylor :I settle for a very quick drink of whiskey.
Michael Mowbray :I am kicking off the official start of summer. Yeah, you got a I've got a dedica Citron or lemon flavored vodka with lemonade. It looked very sunny like in your photograph.
Carl Caylor :Yes, because you're in a bottle today.
Michael Mowbray :Oh, it's one of the side benefits to as I've been kind of sharpening my product photography portfolio and I just happened to be choosing liquor bottles that I need to purchase. As props right on, right off, wink wink nod nod nod you get what I mean. Hmm.
Dan Frievalt :Does that also apply for your PPA loan? forgiveness? contribution? Yes, yes. Oh, sure.
Carl Caylor :Sure if you pay nothing be pa VPP
Unknown Speaker :sa p PA. Yeah, yes.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah, they're not ideal blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah,
Dan Frievalt :yeah, yo,
Carl Caylor :got it. Alright, so
Dan Frievalt :speaking of a PA. Okay, I could I could make the official first official announcement I guess I was do
Michael Mowbray :tell you. So
Dan Frievalt :if all things go well, and they do hold it in person convention imaging and in Grapevine, Texas 2021. I am invited to be a keynote speaker for this would be my third time so awesome. Congrats. Yeah, we can officially announce it now. I signed a contract yesterday and so yeah, There's the news sponsored by White House custom color for your photography needs. Okay, no.
Michael Mowbray :White House custom color for for money.
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, they have to hit they have to sponsor the podcast executive dollar
Carl Caylor :we want $1 No, No, I'm just kidding about that
Michael Mowbray :dollar per minute.
Carl Caylor :Oh my it's too funny. Well, that's awesome. Congrats. That's great.
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, I hopefully we can get together and actually have the of the convention because then yeah,
Michael Mowbray :yeah. Now dammit. I was I was thinking I probably wasn't gonna go this year because I want this last year, like, kind of go every other year and then you had to get up on stage. Dammit.
Carl Caylor :It's in Texas this year. So I mean, our Texas School friends are gonna be there. We gotta go.
Michael Mowbray :Yeah, that's true. Yeah, yeah. So next question. Yeah, go. But I just want one picture. Why do I have to pay so much? Now? My response to that is I just want one picture. I always say, well, that pitcher better be Margarita is otherwise your
Carl Caylor :picture of scotch?
Michael Mowbray :Yeah, no. What do you say to that? Well, I wrote these down and wrote down answers. And I'm throwing them at you guys. Yeah. Nice.
Dan Frievalt :Are you talking? Is this in the sales session? Or is this like when they call him like, Hey, I just want, you know, like a wedding. I don't need you for the whole wedding. I just need you for a few hours. A couple pictures. It's like, Well, I have
Carl Caylor :a best man or maid of honor. So really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, cuz, well, you know what? I'm just gonna add to this. I know Dan has an answer. But I'm gonna add to this because this kind of goes along with the next question. I was going to ask you. You're asking for a session fee. Where does that include? Is it included anything? So because that kind of goes along with this? In the answer in that, okay, we still need to take the time to find out what you need. Okay, we still need a time to Create what you need for both of us working together and all the equipment and props and education that I've gone through to make what your vision is for you, and then we need to do give you choices, and then you need to pay for that. So yeah, one just to have one. Yeah, it's gonna cost quite a bit compared to what they're if you know, doing a math, if you ordered 10 of them, it is going to cost less for more as you get going. But you have to overcome the creation fee and the time it takes to get to that point. It's just, that's just the way it is. And I mean, that's what I'm telling you photographers, what do I tell them? I mean, the customer that our guests kind of just that it is all our time, and energy and equipment and know how to produce what you have vision and once that's Done, then it actually gets cheaper per image when it's said and done. But you need to start our product is our image. I mean, we don't have if we don't create image look at right now in this whole Coronavirus thing, we have no products, I have no products, right because I have nobody to photograph. He says perfect time to give that example. If you have nothing to if you didn't create anything, you don't have anything to sell.
Michael Mowbray :So, a tip for folks listening here. Further tip beyond that is play this back, because we're giving you some good advice and write down some of the stuff we're saying and have you know, and practice these things and have it scripted out and then make it your own. So you've got to reply when people ask you these questions, because this is one I've actually scripted out before and I just basically I cut and pasted. What I typically say as a loose script is I say in a perfect world I could take one click of the shutter and create the person Perfect portrait. I've also found that people like to have options and choices. Do you like to have choices? And they'll usually say, Well, yeah, I like to have choices. Once you like to look at more than one photo in order to select the portrait that you like best. Yeah, of course you do. Creating a great portrait is a process. It takes, I think, a handful of images for you or your senior or whatever we're doing. And it takes a handful of those before they get comfortable or you get comfortable in front of the camera. And then it takes a few images for me to start to see you. And they're asking what do you see you like, I'm just meeting you for the first time. I need to create a great portrait of you. It takes me a while creatively to get to see who you are, what your lighting is, how do I bring out your best features? How do I coach you into posing and shift the lighting so you look your best. I can't do that with just one click of the shutter as you walk in and sit down. It just doesn't work that way.
Dan Frievalt :It Takes me time to it takes me time to get up off the floor after I got that low angle shot I'm getting old
Michael Mowbray :I do a lot of low angle shots all the time and this is starting to freak me out a little bit it's like they're like Do you need help getting up? I'm like no I didn't get off. You do
Carl Caylor :once you do get up you still need time for them to stop laughing at you
Dan Frievalt :well, you know with with talking about out of focus images before and things like that within the Sony viewfinder laid on the ground hit I focus. I don't even have to I don't have to crawl on a swamp anymore to get those annoying Oh, man. Mom, No, I know.
Carl Caylor :I can make a picture.
Michael Mowbray :Yeah.
Unknown Speaker :Cool.
Michael Mowbray :It's just oh my gosh, you guys. You guys like
Dan Frievalt :it We all
Carl Caylor :drink side by side
Unknown Speaker :China drink
Michael Mowbray :very that's very refreshing
Dan Frievalt :It's so late last night surfing through the channels trying to find something watching creed was on you know the rocky oh yeah 15 or whatever. Yeah. And is the end so the epic battle scene and and I you know I'm watching like what's going on behind as they're interviewing them and there's all these photographers on the ring photographing, and they have they have the cheapest cameras and a kit lens, you know these little zoom in and they're taking pictures. I'm like, Who? Well okay, who's the director that did this. Come on, who's the Director of Photography, you have like a kit lens and these guys zooming in and out and the lens was like a 35 millimeter lens. You know, a sports photographer wouldn't have that. type of setup Come on
Michael Mowbray :I hate it because that's I always look at the photographer's anytime they show up in a movie. I look at the dog friend turned to her and she's like she looks at me rolls her eyes because I'm gonna say something like he's like he's like two feet away from them and he's got a 70 to 200 cannon. There's no way you can even grab focus with that.
Carl Caylor :Yeah, whatever. Oh, we can we can we can we enhance this? Yeah, from a mile away. We're going to enhance the guy's license plate. And I'm like, Yeah, right. Of course. It's just the opposite when back in the day, they used to have this Sports Illustrated Swimsuit edition, or the making of the swimsuit edition on TV and boys like Yeah, what are you watching this from? Like? You said, I just went oh my gosh. Made it safe.
Dan Frievalt :It's research call research.
Carl Caylor :Darn Right.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah.
Dan Frievalt :Anyway, what were we talking about?
Michael Mowbray :I can't remember what it was so we'll move along
Carl Caylor :I got one keep removing. So I don't know about you guys but back or when we're allowed to or not allowed to when this whole Photoshop thing hit the industry and I know a lot of you guys have been only in the industry when we've had Photoshop but retouching and they've used to call it airbrushing when it got more into it and everything but they're like, there was a lady that a friend of mine photographing down in lower Michigan, I guess. person came to her said, you know we need a headshot and everything and we did it she was kind of happy with it. She looked at the image and said, Yeah, okay at the proofs. So okay, I want this one looks good. Do your thing and give me a call when it's done. So, the woman gave her a call said it's all done and she had she had this whole she started the story because she was tell us about her elaborate system of how she follows her orders from the order time to when it goes to the lab when it goes back to lab to when it's client ready. So she has her little box of client ready stuff. So the lady came in she pulled it off her image out of the client ready been handed to her the lady's like Ah, I I really thought I'd look younger on this. She said you you want to look younger than this? She said yeah, I thought you could you know like airbrush me and make me look younger. She was I can take care of that hold on just a minute. She put it back on her little a customer not ready part of the shelf. Said turned to her lady and said come back in 10 years look 10 years younger. Wow, I wish I could say that dude. But
Michael Mowbray :actually to get that
Carl Caylor :come back you'll you'll be 10 years younger than you are right now. But you know, that's one of the things that I hear right now. One of the questions from from my guest is Do you how much retouching do you do? And I guess, because and we've talked about this in past episodes, but a lot of the people are now starting to ask, Are you going to make me look all plastic like we see are like so and so just dead. So, and I kind of address that as to how we do retouching, but a lot of what we've already asked the questions we've already asked and we hear from from guests really, in Danny hit on it before that, you know, you pick your target market, your, your ideal customer, but we need to educate them. And if you tell them all this stuff ahead of time, or if you have it posted on the website, if you have pamphlets made or brochures made, anything that you can do to create education. Usually when there's a question that we have to our photographer friends roll their eyes about, it means we didn't educate our client isn't as much as we should have. Because they should have already known this stuff and I know I'm tired Kind of telling some funny things or fun little stories that I've heard over the years. But in essence, it was an undereducated client, which originally orchestrated that, that story. So educate your people as much as possible.
Michael Mowbray :Yeah, one thing I do, and I do this more with headshots than anything else, I will ask them, is there anything specific you would like me to address in retouching? And they'll say, you know, can you take off 20 pounds so I was like, Well, yeah, so dollar a pound. Don't laugh, but I go, go go No, really go. Yeah, really put $1 a pound, how many pounds you want to lose? You can take it all off. But no, but
Dan Frievalt :I've seen your profile picture. There was no there was very little retouching. I think we discussed this before on that one.
Michael Mowbray :Yes. Which one you're talking about. Well,
Carl Caylor :there's ones we haven't even seen yet. Dan, the old the Elvis
Michael Mowbray :one, there's a whole lot of retouching on that because sturdevant still gives me shit about that. He could, he could see the liquify tracks. But that was a that was kind of a smartass one anyway, but anyway.
Dan Frievalt :Well it also comes back to like, show what you want to sell, who don't feel like you have to show all your sessions, everything that you shoot, you know, show what you're proud of what you want to sell, you know, your best retouching, your best stuff, you know, doesn't mean that your clients, your other clients don't get those images. If they qualify for them. They can share them but maybe it's not the highlight of your blog posts or your Instagram posts or your Facebook marketing like you know, show, show your best. And I know I've sent some things to you guys back and forth. There's a particular senior senior I photographed last year and she was a joy to work with She's actually going to be my assistant this year but it's like every image I posted her people just go nuts over and it's not like her images to me are even really that more spectacular there's just something I don't know Girl Next Door look or something that she has that je ne sais quoi. literally French for I don't know what it's French for Instagram likes
Carl Caylor :and fish but Facebook likes to
Dan Frievalt :respect likes Yeah. So you know Same thing with you know when I do when I do my webinars on the montage and things like that and people say well those don't sell by me and I go to their website, but they have no samples of mine dashes, they never shovel it in a montage. And so how do you know that doesn't sell for you, you know, if you put it together and you you believe in it, and you you love it and you enjoy shooting those types of things. You're going to get people who connect to it and will pay you for it
Michael Mowbray :and pay good money for it. So, what's the what's the stupidest thing anybody ever asked you for? Let's go there. I got one. I'll start you off all while you guys were thinking, yeah, this is back in the days of film. And this was from a wedding. And it was a candid shot. So there was like the bride was talking to her mom. And like the dad, the father of the bride was like his back to us. And he was talking to somebody else. And the mom asked me, well, I love the shot, but I wish we could get her dad into it. And it's like, well, he's there. She's like, Yeah, but he's facing away from us. And I was like, Yeah, she's like, I would like to have him facing forward. Like, well, I can't really do that. And she asked me, well, couldn't you just flip the negative? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker :Come on, Michael.
Michael Mowbray :That was one of those where I was very early in my career. cuz it was filmed I'm just going I have no answer for that. How do you respond to that? Wow, no physics works
Dan Frievalt :that reminds me of some of those those internet Photoshop things like hey, can you Photoshop this and people do all that crazy stuff to it like, yeah,
Carl Caylor :sure we can. It's just like a taxidermy up here. Where do you got the, you know that that deer with the antlers and stuff and you go around the other side of the wall in the butt sticking out the back? Absolutely. It's the same thing.
Michael Mowbray :Exactly. Exactly. That's a Photoshop troll guy. He's, he's hilarious. Yeah, it's good. It's good stuff.
Dan Frievalt :I can't think of I'm sure there's been a lot of them. It's just off the top of my head. I can't think of crazy requests. I Well, I do have one crazy request. So I've I've, I've done my funky fashion stuff. All of us have kind of worked with models and You know, it's a whole different realm of photography, it's, you know, especially because I specialize in high school senior photography. So, you know, some of the outfits and things are more risque. They're more, you know, really crazy and out there. So I have this image in my studio. And this girl has like fishnet stockings on in high heels. And she's laying in it's a boiler and it's very vibrant color. And it's, she's, yeah, she's got like a tube top on. And so it's a bit risque. It's not something I would do with seat with a senior, but I had a senior client come in and said, I want I want that image like that. I'm like, oh, cool, we can go to that location and, and get that image, you know, let's talk about outfits and stuff. She's like, No, I want like, same outfit as that. I'm like, No, I'm sorry. Not for now, for a senior. I'm not gonna do that. So I'm like, how do I handle this? You know, so I thought, you know, and this is a second part of our session. So I'm like, okay, we'll kind of address this but I'd like it. I'll get an outfit for you. We'll handle it. I have this cool dresses and stuff we can use. Well then, in a regular senior session, she brought it up again. And we're doing these soccer images and you know, and I bring it up to the mom, I'm like, I'm throwing this on the mom, the mom is gonna be like, no way, you're gonna look like that. And, of course, the mom didn't have my back. She's like, whatever she wants to do is fine by me. And I'm like, Thanks, Mom. Thanks. Yeah. And what it came down to is sticking to your morals and be like, you know, I don't care what she wants. I know she's a client. They say the clients always right. But providing that
Michael Mowbray :history that both both Carl and I are shaking our heads knew
Unknown Speaker :that right?
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, it's like, you know, it's still my business is still my brand. That image even if I lose that client, I don't care because I could lose hundreds of other clients by putting a particular image out. That looks like that, in my opinion. It's not something I want my brand to be. So finally, I just told her I'm like we are. If you want that I'm not the photographer for you, I have this, this outfit I think is going to look better. But I'm not going to shoot that because it's just not something that's going to look good, you know. And so she went along with it, she ended up loving the images. And so we were both happy. But yeah, stick to what your brand is. And if it means losing a few people or a person, think of how many more people could lose in the long run by putting something out there that is offset, or you start to attract more people who want that look at you're like, Whoa, and you're like we did it for her. It's like, oh, what did I what kind of can of worms that I opened up here for me.
Michael Mowbray :You need to be able to live with yourself and you need to be able to sleep at night you need to be able to feel good about what you're doing.
Carl Caylor :So I got one here. An interesting one, an engagement couple, few years back not that long ago actually just somewhat recent. And this is a professional type of person by the way. I'm not going to Tell you what she does, but she's a professional person. And it has to do with the law. But anyway, I'm not gonna say But anyway, I showed up for engagement session without her fiance instead. He didn't really want to be part of the pictures, but you know, I thought you could, you know, just, you know, work with me and add him in. Like, yeah, no, it doesn't work that way. And we get some strange requests. There's no doubt about it, but without a couple. Yeah, exactly. You know, it's like the drive up, drive up portraits, you know, just add whatever background you want. But so here's here's something for you. Actually, speaking of backgrounds, one more story before we get into the next direction. I was going ahead with you guys. This is actually 20 over 20 years ago, but had Brian come in. This is way before Photoshop still during film, and we're going to do a pre bridal We photographed her with a portrait of her mom. Her mom had passed away several years prior to this and had a beautiful portrait of her mom. And to have a presence of mom at the wedding, we're going to do a pre bridal with her holding on to her mom's portrait. She came in look at the proofs and decided on a specific image we ordered. I ordered it up. She came in to pick it up. And she's she's like, well, I thought there'd be something else behind me. And I thought, What do you mean? She's like, I just I just thought there'd be something else. You know, behind me. I thought, well, you saw the photograph, you saw the image. This was the background that we had chosen. It was chosen specifically for this to match what her mother in fact, I painted it for this session. It was a custom painting I did for their session to match the mom's old portrait. And she said, Well, I just thought that there'd be something else behind me as all I'm thinking. You No, it goes to the thought of I've said for the last few years to people just don't realize that photography is anymore. You know, when they saw it for a while was airbrushing and then and now it's photoshopping and everybody thinks that it's not an actual reality capture memory of what was realistically there. So it's just kind of funny sometimes some of the questions or comments we get that I just have to kind of shake my head and go, yeah, this isn't TV or the movies. This is what was there. You know, we're recording actuality. So, trigger words are Can't you just photoshopped that? Yeah, that triggers me to do is it's actually an impulse. It's a knife hand to the throat. Yeah.
Michael Mowbray :Chop up to the throat. And then they go
Carl Caylor :again, is a reflex Miss Piggy flex, you know, she's the karate chop people.
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, yeah. And especially when I when I used to photograph weddings, that was always a comment that got made. Because it would be like, Oh, the groom's flowers crooked. And you notice that after you, you know, halfway through the day, or like maybe five images in, it's like, oh, let's redo those five images and someone else will just from the peanut gallery. So you can just Photoshop that. It's like, you know how many images I'm photoshopping that on? It's not just like, right? We're doing one image. Yes. Sometimes with seniors and stuff. Now, I will say that to myself, I'm like, wow, you know, or I'll just Photoshop that. Or it's like, I'll run there's a cup or something or a piece of garbage. I'll run and grab and pick it up. It's like, yeah, could I Photoshop that out? In a few seconds? Yeah. But I'm going to take like 10 images in the spot. Yeah, I and I'll even joke I'll be like, boom. See, I just photoshopped that out.
Carl Caylor :In camera,
Dan Frievalt :I just say, wait a minute. I gotta Photoshop something out of here. And I run through the background and grab that, you know, distracting piece of garbage is back there.
Michael Mowbray :That's actually good.
Carl Caylor :Here's one for you. Back in the day used to photograph a lot of weddings, this is a question I've always gotten. So we get done with our wedding wedding ceremonies at 12 o'clock. And by the time the receiving lines done, it'll be about 130. So we don't have to be to the reception hall until for can we quick run out to the fountains out in the, in the, you know, the central area in town here. Because it's, you know, it's really cool thought and everything, of course, and it's nice and sunny, it should be great for our pictures. How do you address that? When you know, physically impossible, it's not gonna happen. I just
Michael Mowbray :told him there's not enough time. And I have to tell them I've done I've done hundreds of weddings. I know how long things take. I know there's always a factor. The bigger the wedding party, the longer it takes to corral and all the cats and get them into the bus or the limo or the different cars and if there's not enough time
Carl Caylor :and why why isn't enough time Physically anyway,
Michael Mowbray :I want to walk them through how long each part takes Yes. And say, and now we're 20 minutes beyond where we need to be. So you got to make a decision, what are we going to cut? In order to do that? What are we going to move back in order to do that? Or we don't do it? I mean, I get very Matter of fact with them, but I have to otherwise you're running around crazy trying to change the laws of physics. And you can right do that. Yeah, that was I mean, I'm, I think I may have brought this up in a earlier podcast. So I'll keep this short story. But the bride who was getting married after the time change in November, and she wanted to do a receiving line at the biggest church in Madison, and they had 800 people at the church and they decided to do a receiving line. I said, this is going to take two hours. Well, no, the wedding planner says I wanna so I say a will. I'll put money on it. And it's like, well, what happens if it does Well, it's gonna be dark. By the time we leave the church and you want to go up to the Capitol, and sure enough, we got to the Capitol. It was six o'clock at night. Yep, you know? Yeah. And we get there. And she's like, I go, well, it's dark. We're just gonna have to make things work. It's like, well, can't you do something about that? It's like walking like things was like, Why don't necessarily want things live and like, it's dark. Yeah, I cannot. I cannot pull Superman. Go up, fly around the Earth backwards. Sure. Take it back on its rotation. And you go back in time, which again, is breaking the laws of physics, but Hmm, that's math, Dan.
Dan Frievalt :Yes, I was thinking now if there was
Michael Mowbray :a math thing Mm hmm.
Unknown Speaker :It's like Cairo like you can book for a workshop on natural light. Yeah, I'm when there's dark,
Michael Mowbray :natural light.
Carl Caylor :Always love that. Yeah, you guys just or when they Not to mention any names or anything but when they schedule several photographers a photograph, and oh, you're using natural light so we got you in this location. It's out in the middle of a field at three o'clock in the afternoon. Yeah, okay, this is going to work in natural light doesn't mean creating a correct exposure outside it means finding the same kind of portrait lighting that we would use in the studio is to make people look appealing. And those locations are not going to be appealing. So yeah, it's physics is our enemy at some times.
Michael Mowbray :Oh, yes.
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, and good kind of come back to all these questions are, you know, you've hired me and trusted me as a professional. So through my years of experience, this is what I know is gonna work if you if you like what you've seen on my website. That means retouching that means hair and makeup, that means lighting, that means locations that like these outfits, if no matter what you saw, if you if you will like what you saw, and that's why you're hiring me, it's because we followed these rules put in place as a professional that I've come up with to have the best imagery and best success, you know, and in fact, last year I, I added something new to my list of things that can cause a reschedule for instance, whether Right, well, whether it's like I used to just have Well, if we're gonna, you know, reschedule because of weather. That's fine. I want to make sure your session is great. Well, what people don't realize is weather also includes wind. If yes, yeah, you know, if it's beautiful and sunny out and 70 but 2530 mile an hour winds, like, that's not good for doing a session, you know, your hair's gonna be blowing all over the place your eyes are gonna be watering. It's it's just it's cool for a couple images that have some hair blowing, but not every single image my assistant is you know, holding on to that light you know, like, like Michaels You know, seed weighs 90 pounds soaking wet, just getting blown across the parking lot, you know? Right. And same thing with heat, surprisingly, or Believe it or not, it does get, it could get 100 degrees with 100% humidity and makeup, it's melting and they want to wear jeans. And you know, sometimes even like a sweater and like they're dyed. So, their hair's falling, you know, within the first lifetime, we changed our first outfit that are gone, you know, it's gone, you know, or the opposite if, depending on their hair, it's all frizzy. So you know, I so I put in like, I have the absolute say, if we run this session or not, because, you know, I'm looking at I always say to in the summer, I'm a weatherman first and the photographer for a second. You know, there's even times where Stephanie will call me like, Is it gonna rain this afternoon? What do you think of weatherman Dan? You know?
Michael Mowbray :Before we've got a 10% chance
Carl Caylor :my ankle hurt yesterday. So that means tomorrow it's gonna rain. Exactly serious about that, actually. But
Dan Frievalt :yeah, you know, and and that is a benefit again another reason why I love senior photography is because, hey, it's not right. Let's reschedule a wedding. Even now, I haven't done weddings for years. And if I wake up on a Saturday, and it's rainy, and it's cold, I'm like, Ah, I'm so glad I'm not shooting, but I feel sorry
Michael Mowbray :for all
Dan Frievalt :those weddings that are going on right now. Because actually, that's
Carl Caylor :a good point. That's a good point. Because I've had, you know, back in the day when I did photograph a lot of weddings that always came up, but again, to educate like I said, educate your client. I've always said in part of our consultation, part of our discussion of how your wedding day is going to go. I said, you know, if the weather is not perfect, we gotta roll with it. And if it's really you, you're expecting you're dreaming of this. Nice gorgeous sunny day. It doesn't happen You can't let that ruin your day let's we'll find something fun to do with it whoo stop in the puddles or we'll find great you know great big umbrellas that are really kind of cool. That'll be classic and it'll be but it's gonna be a story we're here to photograph what happens in your day it is up to you to have a good time period. So whatever happens you roll with the punches and I'm This is me talking to Brian because the groom doesn't care you know, they don't care. But so I'm telling the bride this, you no matter what happens, find a way to have a good time with it nine record it now we'll even help you have a good time. But just understand that things change, you know the weather change the sometimes your venue changes or obstacles get in the way and it's not. It's not in your best interest to be negative about it. You know, you want to look back on this day with some with all kinds of positive have stories and if it's rain it maybe you take a negative say, Oh, I can't believe our day it was raining cats and dogs and we had to walk out with umbrellas and umbrella broke because it was blowing so hard and then look here's the picture that perfect then you covered the day but you got to prepare people for that and educate and then it's not your fault because of the physics and the weather and and biology you know that all the little things that biology
Dan Frievalt :three drinks, right? They're
Carl Caylor :gonna blow bubbles or my whiskey this time.
Michael Mowbray :I'm getting empty here. So I have a lot shorter answer to that question. All the time. The answer's no, the bride's house. What happens if it rains and I look at them totally serious. I go, you're getting wet. Yeah, what do you mean? You're going to get wet. If you go outside, it's up to you. If you want to go outside, I can cover the gear. I've got a ring gear for all my stuff will get wet but you got to knock that be worried about the dress getting wet because it's gonna get wet. It's gonna get dirty.
Carl Caylor :You know, I tell them that even if it's not gonna be bad weather, your dress is perfect. Now when you left the store, it will never look like that again. Right?
Michael Mowbray :So, right now, unless you're saving it for your next wedding, don't worry about it.
Dan Frievalt :Well, yeah, beyond weather, I would tell my brides just in general say, You know what? I know you want a perfect day, but in all reality, I've done a lot of weddings, and there is no perfect day something is gonna go wrong. Something's not gonna go exactly to your itinerary. And it's how you handle it. That makes your day you can embrace it and be like, hey, the cake fell. Hey, it rain. Oh, that's all part of your story.
Michael Mowbray :And normally,
Dan Frievalt :you know, then when I got married I sometimes we tell the story of well, you know, we got married in Mexico was on the beach. It was awesome and We hired a DJ you know for later on with the with the meal and it was like they the DJ didn't really show up so they grabbed some guy from the hotel and he didn't know what he was doing and we wanted to play authentic Mexico music and Latin music and all this you know, beautiful stuff that we wanted to part of it and All he wanted was a play like 80s Rock and Roll which I love. But the song he played like three times was Highway to Hell. And
Michael Mowbray :you see the T shirt I'm wearing a
Unknown Speaker :voltage Yeah, it's beautiful.
Dan Frievalt :So it's it's become our official wedding song is Highway to Hell. And here we're like that's our wedding song man.
Michael Mowbray :You know
Dan Frievalt :how we embrace it. We you know, we went with it. We could have been like, why did they not have the proper DJ in there? And the music it's like whatever you know,
Carl Caylor :it that's all that's that's all our all our sessions whether it's a wedding or seniors or family or children, you know some things like Dan was saying, you know, you you want to control it 100% and if the weather's bad or wind or humidity or whatever, you know, postpone or cancel it or whatever make it to your liking but there's some things you just you gotta roll with and that's another part of having the experience to be able to roll with any situation knowing your gear knowing having your rain gear like Michael just said for his camera equipment for his lighting equipment, being ready for any situation that's part of being a professional. And you know, you should be able to walk into any situation any physical or mental which is a lot of the case too, by the way, because I swear to God where a psychologist as much as we have time for sometimes
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, I was gonna mention that when you're doing Yeah, but
Carl Caylor :yeah, but you, you gotta be able to just be able to roll with roll with it. And and bottom line. When it's all said and done, you need to have have, you need to have a product or an image, you need to have a record of time for that guest one way or another, whatever it took, you got to have something and then if time and expertise allows, you can make it better. But you have to have some unique to record something no matter what happens. You got to have something that's saleable. Number one first and then given everything we can put into it make it better along the way, if at all possible, but our job is not just taking pictures. Oh, no,
Michael Mowbray :no, the thing I used to tell couples in consultations and again, when we meet before the wedding is I'm your lighthouse. And they go well, what do you mean by that? It's like lighthouse. It's you know, it's standing there, the storms crashing the waves are coming in and out. lighthouse is steady, and the light is shining and is guiding everybody along the way. I'm your lighthouse on the wedding day. So as all the crazy is crashing around you, I will help guide you through the day. Because I've done this before. takes a lot to shake me. I'm going to be the calm that you know the one at least the one common thing that you're going to deal with all day long is going to be me. And so then they look to me for that calm. I just kind of got tired of doing that. Yeah, that was insane one there that's really
Carl Caylor :enjoyed the most actually about weddings. That was I love that. You know helping them through the day and if not always told them if it was if there's something that that I did because I saw it needed to be done, and you didn't even know about it. Perfect. It just made your day better and you'd have to worry about it. But to me that that and then giving them a professional product in the end was what made me the happiest about wedding, wedding work. Yeah, get him through the day have a good experience. So parting shots.
Dan Frievalt :Oh, and I was I was just gonna say to all this good parting shot too is I don't know how you guys feel but you know for me things don't always go 100% either no matter how long I've been doing this and but it's how you overcome those obstacles how you still put on a professional smile or just like hey this is gonna be great even though inside you're like why is this I don't know why this is not working or this flash isn't working or the lights
Michael Mowbray :are that or the shutter just died on my camera?
Dan Frievalt :Yeah, it's it's it's not equipment failure a lot of times it's just like, oh I bump my ISO or this happened or I forgot to change my my especially with weddings again coming back to that it's like I'm shooting a bride indoor. And the white balance you know i have for indoor and I have it at 2.8 or 1.2 and I run outside Okay, I'm going now the groom is ready. With his groomsmen Okay, I take a couple shots and realize, Oh man, I just did a group shot at 1.2. Like that's
Michael Mowbray :1600 Yeah,
Dan Frievalt :exactly. Yeah. tungsten white balance, you know, so
Michael Mowbray :Canon 20 D Yeah.
Dan Frievalt :Or you look over and you have a light over there and you know, that little groomsman is like, knocking the light over and she crashes and it's like, Oh, there goes it's a $2,000 it's no big deal.
Carl Caylor :insurances for
Dan Frievalt :cops, you're like,
Carl Caylor :because that's all I got. Yeah.
Dan Frievalt :So I guess my point is, is if you're listening and you feel like, at least for me that I have it all together and everything works out perfect. It's not the case. Like, it's how, you know, it's just keep how you handle it, work through it. And you know, you learn things as you go and you hopefully have less of those mistakes, but it's never gonna never gonna be perfect.
Michael Mowbray :Well today's episode we always have a sponsor for every episode and today's episode is brought to you by citra asked down from against the grain brewery. This beer is not candy or mother's milk. It's not brewed by gypsies or aliens. This is from their website by the way, nor does it contain any zombie dirt. This is a double IPA brewed with citra hops, it's sticky, it's hoppy, it's delicious. Simply drink it and enjoy it. Don't hoard this beer citra acid down and drink it right now.
Carl Caylor :Of course I would. I would rather have a beer that is an IPA that does not have zombie dirt. But zombies aren't really that.
Michael Mowbray :that come from this we have to put this in here because this is perfect.
Dan Frievalt :One of these days like a case of one of these weird liquors are going to show up in x.
Michael Mowbray :That's the goal here. I'm open some of the stuff shows up.
Dan Frievalt :I'm not sure we've been up our game then
Carl Caylor :we get we got a we got a taste this one This one sounds interesting and not like climate tomato or something. I mean, this one actually sounds like we need to try to drink it,
Michael Mowbray :right? You don't want I'll start tagging these people in these in the Bobcats maybe they'll find it. I don't know. We'll get some free stuff out of this. That's all I gotta say.
Carl Caylor :I gotta ask, Is this a six pack or a four pack? Because you know, some of the four pack things means that you know, it's even better. It was a six pack. They showed that on their website, so
Michael Mowbray :I couldn't tell you. It's still good. It's probably still good because I did. I found this about five minutes before we started to record. So there you go. Alright, that's all we got for this week. So until next time, cheers to you. Cheers. Cheers.
Unknown Speaker :Last call.
Michael Mowbray :You've been listening to the photo happy hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to not miss a single action packed episode. And join our photo. Happy Hour face. Foot group where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You can find my MoLight gear online@www.go mo lytx. com. That's geo mo
Unknown Speaker :Li gh t comm
Michael Mowbray :you can find the Facebook page under MoLight store and I also run the Godox flash help group on Facebook. You can find Dan senior unlocked website at www dot seniors unlocked.com that's seniors with an S at the end unlocked.com and the Facebook group under seniors unlocked and you can find Carl's coaching corner@www.cc photo coach comm cc photo coach.com Till next time, cheers to you.
Liam :I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want me to pay you to subscribe, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you subscribe now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will annoy you