Photo Happy Hour

The Dan McClanahan interview: A new approach to senior photography

August 12, 2020 Michael Mowbray, Carl Caylor, Dan Frievalt Season 1 Episode 19
Photo Happy Hour
The Dan McClanahan interview: A new approach to senior photography
Show Notes Transcript

This may be the smartest episode we've done yet! Wise beyond his years, Dan McClanahan joins us to share his new commercial approach to senior photography. If you're not familiar with Dan's work, stop reading now and check it out. https://www.mcclanahanstudio.net/ Then come back and listen to this great interview. Thought provoking and hilarious throughout, you're going to want to listen and take notes. Topics we also hit include: Dan's Yelp review of Iceland. The senseless homicide of a lonely platypus in Iowa. Tiny minivan woes. Andre the Giant. And Carl's fond memories of Circus Olé. ;)

Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play".  And don't forget to subscribe!

Your Hosts:
Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com

Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com

Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner.  Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
www.ccphotocoach.com

MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.

Michael Mowbray :

Recorded live from a pontoon boat floating down the mighty Mississippi. It's the photo happy hour podcast. Hey, welcome everybody. I'm your photo happy hour bartender Michael Mowbray Today I'm serving up a foamy pint of portrait Porter. See what I did there? As always, I'm joined by my fellow bartenders, Dan Frievalt and Carl Caylor. Hey, what's up guys? What is up?

Dan Frievalt :

whiskeys out, slapping the mint

Michael Mowbray :

I think the acids up a little bit on me right now. You having a mohito again?

Dan Frievalt :

No Actually, I'm not.

Michael Mowbray :

What are you doing? Wow.

Dan Frievalt :

I'm having wine. I know. I know.

Michael Mowbray :

Box wine again.

Dan Frievalt :

It's been a long day. I didn't have time to slap mint.

Carl Caylor :

I asked you guys at nine o'clock this morning. If I could start drinking you didn't really make a definitive answer about that. It was one of those weeks today,

Michael Mowbray :

in case you're joining us for the first time, and you haven't kind of gotten the hint yet. We drink. So we're threee professional photographers who have been around for a little while and know a few things and we get together and we drink. And the more we drink the more harder we have time talking? Yes. The more we drink, the more we know. And every week we have a topic except for this week.

Carl Caylor :

Wha t's better than a topic

Michael Mowbray :

this week is Wow, wow. Wow, what's photo happy hour after dark? And we have a guest. Our guest is from the great state of Iowa, how is this heaven? No, it's Iowa. He is Mr. Dan McClanahan. So Dan, do you want me to do a little introduction on you or you want to introduce yourself because I was going to do this whole spiel.

Dan McClanahan :

promised proper pronunciation all around. I'm curious to hear what you have to say. I'm not good at describing myself, I suppose

Michael Mowbray :

Actually, I didn't really write anything down. All I was gonna say. I was gonna say Dan and his lovely wife, Alex. And I realized after I wrote that down that nobody ever says anything other than lovely wife, even if you know your wife would be hideous. Nobody ever says Dan and his hideous wife. So Dan and his lovely wife, Alex.

Dan Frievalt :

Lovely, by the way,

Michael Mowbray :

run McClanahan studio in Ames, Iowa. Ames, Iowa is the home of Iowa State, the Iowa State corneaters. What are they? That's like a big scary bird, right.

Dan McClanahan :

No

Michael Mowbray :

tornadoes,

Dan McClanahan :

you know,

Dan Frievalt :

and a lot largest population of hipsters or something like that, isn't it?

Dan McClanahan :

Don't think so. I highly doubt that we've got a few. Oh, I thought it was really nice.

Carl Caylor :

I'll guarantee that. Well

Michael Mowbray :

you got Ed you've got a hipster.

Dan McClanahan :

I want to meet him

Carl Caylor :

he likes flannel too. So

Michael Mowbray :

wait, that's that's the entire population up where you are.

Dan Frievalt :

I mean, if the only story you have is fleet farm what other options do you have on the farm?

Carl Caylor :

We gotta go 100 miles before we can find our okay. Geez.

Dan McClanahan :

We don't have one either.

Carl Caylor :

I did have another family consultation this morning that again. They wanted to know if it was okay if they wore their red flannel. I said sure.

Unknown Speaker :

makes a good Christmas card. Absolutely. I've done that one. Enjoy bacon.

Dan Frievalt :

How many pounds of bacon and your flannel and your x Dan

Dan McClanahan :

That was two pounds. Oh my god. I forgot about that. Thank you. See when you live here you you don't perceive anyone as a hipster because it's just humans in our existence. And when I talk to you guys, I'm like, dang, maybe we are hipsters.

Dan Frievalt :

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Dan McClanahan :

It's a peaceful existence.

Michael Mowbray :

here's a here's a deep question for you to start off. Have you always wanted to be a photographer?

Dan McClanahan :

Not at all, man.

Michael Mowbray :

When did you get bit.

Dan McClanahan :

I got bit towards the end of my college tenure. So the first time I photographed was in high school senior year I took photography and I got a deed and

Carl Caylor :

disappointing for de for dodging phones. Do

Dan McClanahan :

I think I don't know what happened there? I tried, like pretty hard, but I think that I wasn't doing what the teacher wanted me to do. Just doing what I wanted to do. Seems to be a theme in my

Carl Caylor :

that's that should be an A actually.

Dan McClanahan :

Yeah, I got a D, suddenly when I've ever got to and then I didn't shoot again until I met Alex. She's a graphic designer in college, and I was studying writing music. And I was getting really sick of writing towards the end. So I took a photo journalism class just for kicks, because I needed the credit. And that first assignment was when I got it. It was a portrait project. So I made portraits of this guy, and the teacher gave me 100 out of 100 and made me go into his office. He sat me down and said, I think you should do this. And then I did because the economy crashed and I couldn't get a writing job. So

Michael Mowbray :

It was better. What about 2008? Or 2009?

Dan McClanahan :

Mm hmm. So I probably the camera was picked up in 2007 was that class and then 2008 was when I graduated in 2009 was when I couldn't get a real job. Yeah, so I started photographing the weddings there, many of us when we start, and then it kind of just happened. I don't know. I liked it a lot. I didn't have anything to lose, because I didn't have anything to begin with. So it's all been an uphill journey since then, with a lot of cool people I've met along the way.

Carl Caylor :

A lot of cool people. But you know, it's funny, you mentioned that as you're beginning because, you know, I, I think it was a program you gave that image and a couple years ago, you're not this last year, but a little bit before that. You had mentioned, I believe it was part of that program, but you'd mentioned that You You played enough and you learn enough and you've come across you come along enough that you can now take what is in your mind your vision and technically make it happen I mean you played enough you've perfected everything enough and understand like the different parts of the toolbox in the photography world that no you know if I see it in my mind I can make it happen whether it's by the camera by computer or whatever and I thought that was pretty interesting and but it doesn't happen overnight. And you know, it takes practice and that's something that maybe you know, the topic we want to have some days on this show if we ever do have a topic I guess again or or stick to high Yeah, is you know, nothing just happens. We we all do this because we like it or as a hobby or we met a woman that liked it

Michael Mowbray :

or, or even better would get in front of the camera.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, yeah. Just for the record we all marry up I'm just saying it's just the way the world goes but yeah, I just think that that was an interesting that kind of stuck with me you might not even remember saying it but it stuck with me because you know it's just it's something I've always said you know we got in whatever we do with photography or otherwise you know, if we practice enough and hone this our skills enough we should be able to create what we have in our vision or imagination. And that's that's a that's a really powerful thing. So you know, congratulations for being there, man. I I think you are so you know, it's just my opinion but

Michael Mowbray :

love the word of it was what is Carl? No. anyway?

Carl Caylor :

What the hell the line

Dan McClanahan :

so it seems like a lot. This is a our first real conversation, so

Michael Mowbray :

I know. So what are you working on right now? That's got you jazzed.

Dan McClanahan :

Okay, so, um I've been training Positioning into commercial photography for a number of years in the last two years, for the first two years where that hit the 50% or higher of my income level, where I could justify kind of rearranging things and pursuing that a little harder. So this spring, I had a bunch of work lined up, and then worked really hard to line up and then I got COVID. And I had essentially nothing to do for three months, except play with my kids. So now I'm back into high school senior, it's really hard and we're actually saving my butt, but books like 35, I'm having a lot of fun, I scrapped my entire business essentially going into this year and rebuilt it around what I want to do and creating a workflow that's more harmonious with a commercial workflow. So I no longer do a consultation or IPS and I just charge a large fee up front and they get digital files just like a commercial job. Then if they want products on the back end, I will still do that. But it's a much more streamlined automated system. So I shoot, I upload proofs I retouch 10 to 20 images and done with the job. And it's awesome now. So right now I am four shoots into 24 seniors in 30 days, which is insane. It's way more than I've ever taken on before, but I need the money and at the time, and I kind of figured I'd have to make up for the spring once we're chain. And I don't know if we'll have a second shutdown or not people in my town are being pretty stupid. So I kind of anticipate that we might. So I'm trying to get the work in while I can. And do it in a way that keeps my love of it alive. So my style is actually kind of shifting right now to be more fluid and playful and experimental. Which is kind of a byproduct of not feeling like I'm shooting for wall portraits or shooting for this thing. I'm supposed to make it's more of a collaboration with the person I'm photographing. But I'm only unfortunately, like I said, but it's super fun so far, I actually have to get up at 530 in the morning tomorrow. Two nights ago, my the end of our shoe got rained out. So we're making up that last outfit at sunrise, which is gonna suck, but it'll be worth it when we're done. Exactly. Yeah. So that's what I'm doing right now. I haven't. I don't know. I'm just all in on this new system, and kids seem to be loving it. Parents seem to be loving it. I'm loving it, but it's a big. In the past, we had four full time employees and we were big advocates of IPS and the system that most people do that is successful. So it was scary to throw that out the window, but it's been really rewarding so far and kind of freeing to not have other people. I'm in charge of it's all on me. So if I get buried, I can do myself out of it. Or if I need more money this month, I can just take out some more stuff. And it's very fluid. So if I have a commercial job, Monday, that is shoot, process JPEGs, upload to Dropbox, get a check job done. And now the SR workflow can fall in line with that and I can interchange the two types of work a lot more easily. So cool. I'm excited. I'm having more fun shooting than I had in a long time. But

Dan Frievalt :

I'm still trying to wrap so I'm still trying to wrap my head around you saying that you're, you're having more fun in sessions because i've i've photographed with you and there are awful lot of fun. So I mean,

Dan McClanahan :

yeah, everything turns into a job after you do it for long enough, right? Unless you add surely keep it as true otherwise.

Carl Caylor :

So can you explain to us a little bit how it works I mean, because you're changing to commercial are more based on time or the job itself? Is there a set number that Get your creating for or is it whatever happens

Dan McClanahan :

happens or how does it Well honestly, the whole structure is on my website. But basically there's three sessions and you can add time to any of them. So like the most standard is two hours 1500 dollars, you get 10 images with that fee and then if you want to buy more because I'll probably prove them like 80 there's potential for upsell and that's x amount per image on the back end, but basically just establishing that every file is worth this which is what you do on commercial work. So I did and then I have a 45 minute in studio only session that comes with five files for 750. And most people have purchased more from that. So I didn't want to those couple weeks ago and it was like a $2,000 sale for 45 minutes and no product

Michael Mowbray :

and then it nice

Dan McClanahan :

and they were thrilled because another thing that makes this work really well is I feel like our client now is the millennial. And they're very savvy and they all have index accounts, if not white house or Miller's accounts, and they enjoy doing stuff themselves. So enabling them to take that part of the process on is something I was previously hesitant to do, because I felt like I needed to fulfill that service because people weren't capable of doing it themselves. But now they very much, at least my clients enjoy that part. And I'll still happily have a conversation with them and give them recommendations about what they should do. And they can print through me if they want but there's no obligation to it ends with the delivery of the files. So

Carl Caylor :

if they print to you, you Is there a profit on on that for you or no.

Dan McClanahan :

And it's it's not nearly as much as it used to be the markup is much lower. Some most of us care that they get quality and that my time is compensated for So rather than I always used to be really bothered in our industry, people would talk about the sales average. So I conventions and stuff, you're hanging out with these people and everyone is like bragging about their gross numbers and stuff. And it seems like who's got the biggest balls competition? And really what it boils down to me whether my work be commercial now or senior or family is that I make the same amount per hour. So like the hourly income, as long as that's consistent across the board, I can be fluid and what I'm doing. And then without my expenses, I can have the same take home salary I used to have with a lot less gross, which is pretty easy.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, absolutely. That was seen one of the biggest hurdles when, because I worked in advertising for quite a few years. And then when I left the ad agency, I started my own ad agency the same time I started the studio in the money in the ad agency. You know, you're doing graphic design and consulting and stuff. You know, if you, you charge three grand five grand, you get to keep almost all of it. You do that. And for a wedding, you don't get to keep all that stuff you got to pay. It's got to be, you know, for albums and all that kind of stuff. And it's just a lot dirtier money. I always felt and Benji have anything to say to us? Go quiet now.

Dan McClanahan :

Oh, he's cute. Oh, I think he agrees. Yes. So that was a long answer to your question, but it's been a lot of changes. So there's an overview. Very cool.

Carl Caylor :

I like it. I think it's a great idea. Have people like flipped out or sticker shock on the upfront fee or?

Dan McClanahan :

No, I mean, we used to do, we used to have a fairly hefty deposit to book anyways, and we would apply most of that as a product credit. So it's all in how you communicate And I'm sure that we lose people. But we also have 12 returning clients booked so far this year, like younger siblings of former seniors, and some of them if they want to do things the old way we're allowing them to, but most of them think this new system makes a lot more sense. So they're going in on it.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, that was my biggest question. When I heard that you were doing that is how the marketplace is reacting to it. And it sounds like it's a good fit for where you're at.

Dan McClanahan :

Yeah, I was skeptical. Or timid, scared? I don't know. I didn't know how it would fly. But it's fine. It's, yeah, I'm sure it will integrate more as the years go on, on a nationwide scale. Not for everybody, but I think it's a lot more viable than we give it credit for. We've always written off shoot and burning is a bad thing. And technically I'm not guaranteeing but shooting and giving files. The same thing. I'm just charging what it's worth.

Dan Frievalt :

Well, yeah, there's that there's not the wrong way. Given files, you know or already shooting burn if you Yeah, if you make hills offering files yeah not giving fancy Yeah, if you're, if you're making it making your profit no matter how you do it, I'm okay with that, like I, I started doing files years ago, aren't you worried about the quality and stuff? I'm like, no. Like, you know, I'm worried about paying my bills and, you know, however they print it, I still try and give them something nice but if they're gonna steal it, if they're gonna print it if they're gonna do a crummy job, they're you know, they're gonna do it no matter what you do

Dan McClanahan :

great reward and completing something and hanging it on a wall isn't heirlooms and I'm so far I've still been making that stuff for the repeat clients with new clients. I'm not sure. Going into this. I had to be okay, if that stopped. And I'm okay. Yeah, because my favorite route is the shooting and the editing and the fun that that entails. For me, and the rest of it was always something I had to do to be in business. So we've automated my wife as possible. Wait, How'd you do that? No, no, no. Everything's Uh, yeah, no, don't take it too far. Yeah, she's indispensable. But we have children and one has a medical issue that requires a lot of time and attention. So a big part of this restructuring as well was enabling her to stay home so she could take better care of them. So I automated a lot of the communication booking online when someone books they get emails at specific times and it's all a system that took several months to build but it seems to be functioning well. And I think that's important to have in place if you're going to do this profitably as well because all that extra time eats away like you know, we used to be able to have like a $6,000 sR sale but if you take into account all of the hours you communicated more on the phone consulted during the shoot the viewing returns place orders replaced orders because something was printed wrong. Frame stuff hangs up on the wall you've got like, I don't know 12 hours wrapped up in this client and now it's like two so I can make a lot less in that time and still have it be more profitable for my time.

Dan Frievalt :

It's our it's the wedding Calandra helped me with that word, Miko conundrum.

Michael Mowbray :

Word of the Week can under very

Dan Frievalt :

good work as it's like, yeah, a lot of people look at a big money and weddings. But when you break it down, when how many hours like you just did. Senior wise people don't look at that. It's like, Oh, right. You know, or like a lot of people say like, Oh, they like to break up big averages. But like our friend Dave, Jr. And they'll say it's like, well, if you're gonna have some studio sessions, and those only take, you know, half an hour or headshot sessions and you're making you know, like you said, 750 plus if they order more on a 45 minute session, you know, so if your average even is 750 it's fine because it's only 45 minutes at work or hour and a half by the time we're all done compared to doing, you know, same thing.

Dan McClanahan :

So that if there is no upsell, it's still worth my time.

Unknown Speaker :

still profitable. Yeah. And the

Dan McClanahan :

upsell is like hypothetical, but do a really good job. Maybe I'll make more.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, speaking of that do for your upsell. Okay, so you let's say you have they picked a package or a session that was 10 images. Okay, using You said you may have proved 80 or 60 or 80, or whatever, and

Dan McClanahan :

do you artwork, all of those or go I don't really touch anything before they view everything I shoot really clean. I like stuff properly. And Ooh,

Michael Mowbray :

what's that? Like? Yeah.

Dan McClanahan :

I mean, even using natural light lighting, so probably Really, but you guys, you all know this. Um, so proofs, I mean, it's not uncommon for people to see proofs and go, Oh my gosh, I love that picture and they can't visualize what a finished file will look like. So I have a resource I direct them to like a slider plugin that shows it before and after on an edit just to give them some ideas of like, this is the stuff I can fix. And this is the amount better your 10 will be Once you choose them, and any additional ones you want to pay me for. So they can also buy they can also buy all the JPEGs as proofed and retouched as an upsell as well. If they want me to edit them, it's a higher higher per file fee. So there's multiple potentials and this is all brand new, and literally, I meant to hammer it out this spring and then COVID happened so I just started hammering it out like two weeks ago, so it's fresh so far, the results are optimistic.

Dan Frievalt :

You sound just like everyone else.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah.

Dan McClanahan :

I'm just got I got something to do.

Michael Mowbray :

rebuild my website during COVID you know, whenever Got my website two weeks ago?

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, we can have, yes, I had to.

Dan Frievalt :

Well, in the thing that I'm taking from all this, it's like, you know, if you want to take a risk and change something and revolutionize what you do, because of your situation, just do it and and sell it and own it and believe in it. Like I remember it's so Carol Michael, you remember we, we taught at SBI. And Cheryl Walsh was doing something similar. She's like, all right. This is what it is. It's what like 2000 or 2500 bucks, you get a session, you get all these get the proof book, I do everything, boom, I'm done with you. Hey, you know, and that was several years ago.

Carl Caylor :

So it's the same kind of thing she had said she did. Part of the reason she did it was because she said I can't imagine creating something that they don't buy. I want them to have everything I created. Otherwise I want to create it. Oh, yeah, but yeah, she's coming. on that, but Dang, it's awesome,

Dan Frievalt :

huh? But yeah,

Carl Caylor :

that was that was more than a few years ago actually. Oh geez, that was

Michael Mowbray :

before she really blew up with all the underwater stuff.

Carl Caylor :

She was doing underwater stuff that's

Michael Mowbray :

not like,

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, not like not like she is now.

Dan McClanahan :

Yeah, you know jumping back to what you said Dan, I think part of the reason I'm having more fun than they used to is I'm no longer creating on spec. I'm creating on commission which is completely different feeling because they've already given me the money invested in me. So basically, all I want to do is make as coolest stuff as they can in the timeframe that they have me who has no end goal in mind. So removing that end goal all of a sudden, like unleashes limitless possibilities.

Dan Frievalt :

Well, that's an interesting point too, because it one aspect you could feel or one could feel possible. Pressure like Oh man, I have $2,000 up front like I need to prefer that

Dan McClanahan :

but a 15 files which I can shoot in like, half an hour, there's like no ran with them. So it removes a lot of pressure because I know they're only going to get like three images per outfit that they pre paid for anything beyond that. Nice fun bonus.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, yeah. And it's good knowing that up front it's kind of like when I started doing sneak peeks it's like, oh, I'm not going to end the session till I feel like I have that one image that it's just that super cool image that I know that I want to post you know, when you get you know, we all know what when you get that image it kind of gives you goosebumps, like oh, yeah, this is it, you know, so yeah, that's pretty cool.

Unknown Speaker :

Tingley photo guys. Yeah. No one sees me.

Michael Mowbray :

Okay. The first part of what you said. So,

Dan McClanahan :

US Wisconsin boys are brash. I like you,

Michael Mowbray :

Carlos It's a little differently than we do.

Dan Frievalt :

You don't say that during the session?

Carl Caylor :

During my class? I do.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, that's a little different. Yeah, that's different.

Unknown Speaker :

That's I, I

Michael Mowbray :

wanted to do something like that. So I give you kudos for being brave enough to do it. I've been wanting to do that for a couple of years. And then this this year, I kind of did a hybrid where I'm doing my favorite product plus X number of files for flat fee. And then hopefully, they'll do something beyond that. But if that's all they do, then I'm happy with it. I just

Dan McClanahan :

what's your favorite product

Michael Mowbray :

is actually I'll hold it up. I don't have one here. It's just a swatch. I do I do a 20 page book. And I like it because it's got 24 images in it shows the breadth of the session. It gives me a chance to show all the different sides of the senior and all the different little shows wait it

Dan Frievalt :

shows the breath of the session. They shouldn't needs it in winter. Why?

Michael Mowbray :

Bread? Bread? Oh, I

Unknown Speaker :

read. I thought it was

Dan Frievalt :

like, minus 20 of the Titanic, you know fake. You know? That Frievalt fog coming out of it

Michael Mowbray :

when she said the kind of atmosphere and then we're good with it.

Dan Frievalt :

There you go.

Carl Caylor :

Yes. From the lake in Wisconsin that wasn't actually in Wisconsin. You know that one? Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

no, no, it was a lake. It just wasn't built yet because it's a manmade lake Lake Minnesota. Bears your trivia for popko birthday

Michael Mowbray :

pop culture. We always drink pop culture references. We drink for a lot of different things.

Carl Caylor :

Oh my gosh. Like your ice cube. Oh, thank you. It's got the

Dan McClanahan :

I put in the giant ball just to like kind of intimidate you guys a little bit because I'm intimidated by you. Well, we might like

Carl Caylor :

a granite rock I had to get over granite rock but I got to grab it. But

Dan McClanahan :

I have Some of those the ice works better I think,

Michael Mowbray :

Oh, you got a big one though I said ice was for was this guy came up with like real rocks in your glass.

Dan McClanahan :

Well, you're good stuff though. When you're drinking serums you gotta throw some ice.

Dan Frievalt :

Water down. But I'm a young

Dan McClanahan :

parent, I'm on a pandemic budget.

Dan Frievalt :

Great. All right,

Michael Mowbray :

in my in my opinion, there's only one way to drink. seagrams is the way we used to drink it. We go out, we go out the door County, we'd sit on the beach, and we'd we'd have a bottle of seagrams a bottle of seven up and we do this.

Dan McClanahan :

We have the seven and seven,

Michael Mowbray :

seven and seven. You mix it in your mouth, shake it up, drink it down.

Dan McClanahan :

There's an art director that I work with in eastern Iowa that taught me about the seven and seven when I was really young, so it stuck with me. That's probably why I still buy it. It's a good drink for a creative type.

Dan Frievalt :

I like Seagram seven. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray :

All right. Changing changing tactics. word association All right. Throw a word at you. You tell me first thing comes into mind. Iowa.

Dan McClanahan :

Awesome. 75% vows hundred percent awesome. Actually.

Carl Caylor :

T shirts like that.

Dan McClanahan :

They do is a T shirt.

Michael Mowbray :

Better than that's. That's better than the tagline Dubuque used to have Dubuque used to have on their bridge, Dubuque a place to live

Dan McClanahan :

with the seven and seven lives.

Unknown Speaker :

It's all coming together

Michael Mowbray :

to work their next word. Iceland.

Dan McClanahan :

Oh, Jen Haley 100 I didn't get any 100 off of that.

Dan Frievalt :

Oh,

Dan McClanahan :

don't worry. I got some loans though. Yeah, that image didn't do well at PPA. You will?

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, it's funny

Dan Frievalt :

because it was isolated. Thick

Michael Mowbray :

icing is very globally then

Dan McClanahan :

I got lucky I had a photo gasm as you say, when I saw my viewfinder after I took that out, but put my pants. It's really bright though I couldn't see it very well, but

Michael Mowbray :

I remember judging that and the panel was having a heck of a time with is like, what is the blue? It's like, finally seriously, I wasn't the one who explained I can't remember who was on the panel explained it was like those were loops. You gotta go to Iceland. Blue boys.

Dan McClanahan :

Actually, it was not blue, like that. But the 10 stop neutral density filter in front of the lens and a blue tint to it. I like how it looks so I kept it. I didn't color correct

Michael Mowbray :

it. You didn't catch it that way in camera though. So yeah, yeah. Well,

Dan Frievalt :

is that the video of you dancing with your little rain boots on is

Dan McClanahan :

that was that day probably. Yeah. We weren't there for too long. We had mostly rain and like a couple of cools. And I've been dreaming of going back ever since. for about four years tickets went way up

Carl Caylor :

now, did you notice that?

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, cuz they don't want us to go there.

Carl Caylor :

Aren't we bad? Well, this was before the pandemic I'd started looking in. I remember for a while, I was like, What? $86 to Iceland now it's like 1200. It went way up. It was. It was really discerning, but I don't know. Maybe you know, the pandemic is gonna change things. Hopefully. We'll see. I think we can still fly to Albania. I think that's the last country they'll let us in.

Michael Mowbray :

America, Mexico, New Mexico.

Dan McClanahan :

No, were banned from Mexico. That was the great man from Mexico. Those Americans are disease ridden dirty criminal criminals. And some of them I assume, are good people. See this?

Michael Mowbray :

This is all part of the plot. They're going to build a wall to keep us

Carl Caylor :

out. Yeah,

Michael Mowbray :

for that one boy

Dan Frievalt :

you can go to Albania is cheap. You just have to bring back some some ammunition with you sell it. Yeah, yeah. And

Dan McClanahan :

Iceland Iceland has become extremely trendy but it's not overrated. If you ever get the chance I'd say do it. The food sucks. The accommodations are mediocre. The nature is phenomenal. If you don't mind,

Michael Mowbray :

that's yours. That's your Yelp review.

Dan McClanahan :

Outside of the capital city, there's not a whole lot.

Michael Mowbray :

If you like fish for breakfast, we roll into

Dan McClanahan :

a town and like everything would be closed and there's nowhere to even get food. It was rough. And I made Jen I think it's the first time Jen ever camped.

Carl Caylor :

Probably

Michael Mowbray :

she's she's never camped.

Unknown Speaker :

She's She's a soda

Dan McClanahan :

She's a city girl though. She's from Iowa but then Minneapolis. Oh, that's right.

Carl Caylor :

That's right. Yeah, she grew up on a farm pig farm.

Dan McClanahan :

So we eventually realized after a couple nights of camping that there is no flat ground in Iceland. It's all like spiky rocks and camping sucks. So we switched to hospitals. But still a good time. The first night we can't be woke up in the morning and it snowed. And he

Michael Mowbray :

said, what are we doing? That was June. Oh, man,

Dan Frievalt :

there's no firewood. So you have to use like, like, like, like horse dung or something like that. It's probably

Dan McClanahan :

illegal to start a fire to. Yeah, but you can eat whale you can eat horse. There's some other thing that's illegal here that you can eat there too. How do you eat a whale penguin

Carl Caylor :

one bite at a time remember? Puffin namely an elephant, I guess one bite at a time. Like there used to be a kid's book about that. Although I think nowadays that that book went over real big

Dan McClanahan :

Yes,

Carl Caylor :

some ethical problems with it but

Dan Frievalt :

well, I'm impressed by Michaels preparedness here. He's got like questions and weird Association and

Michael Mowbray :

I wrote this while is restarting my computer because I couldn't get my microphone to work. Oh, boy. Okay, well, I've got another word since nobody else has a word or a question. Ready? Ooh, platypus.

Dan McClanahan :

My mom ran over one one time, I swear. We were out in the country driving to the farm she grew up on and it's like kind of marshy land on the side. And this thing came out in front of the car and had a duck bill and a duck feet. But it looks like a big

Carl Caylor :

push.

Dan McClanahan :

So I can't think of any other explanation for it. And she did. And I kept trying. Ah, and no one believes me cuz they're not supposed to live here. But I saw

Michael Mowbray :

the only platypus and make the trip all the way to America. He left his family behind in Australia basically got settled in dies the next day.

Dan McClanahan :

Got a colony. We've got a colony in Iowa.

Michael Mowbray :

I pulled that one just right out of my you know what?

Dan McClanahan :

Everything is relevance if you ask the right person.

Michael Mowbray :

There you go. Oh, okay. What's your favorite minivan?

Dan McClanahan :

I have a Mazda five. It's a micro van. Our garage is too small to fit and minivan in. So it's like a Japanese minivan. It's a tiny mini

Michael Mowbray :

file. So

Dan McClanahan :

yeah, so we do two seats in the front and then two seats with car seats and then the back. If you're very small and you can squeeze back there a couple more people. Anyways, my wife picked it out. I hate it. If I have to drive more than three hours. I don't have enough leg room and it feels terrible. But it fits in their garage. And it makes her happy So, and my friends got one too. It's like the only two monster fives in the name so I thought about pulling them into the Walmart parking lot and doing a light painting. Like it's a super dope one.

Michael Mowbray :

Be sure you leave the sign in a please.

Dan McClanahan :

Yeah. Oh, that's what would make it there might be too much light pollution though to do it. Correct. According to john hartman, the man Yeah, yeah, true bb gun.

Unknown Speaker :

That's true. True.

Dan Frievalt :

So when preparing for a session here baby guide Yeah, yes. In case a platypus comes out.

Carl Caylor :

We got to bring our chainsaw with us.

Dan McClanahan :

I had to pull it off of my leg tonight. I didn't even know really. And then I found it while I was just scratching my leg and it's first one I've ever had a tick. I've never had it be the last conversation I ever have. Have a yes according to

Unknown Speaker :

hmm look a little was nice knowing you man. I look a little

Michael Mowbray :

creepy. It could be the lighting but you look a little green so like you might have Lyme disease

Carl Caylor :

I think it happens that fast but

Dan Frievalt :

Well, I mean we we got the corona and now we got the line.

Carl Caylor :

I swear to god we know aliens pretty soon. I know it,

Dan McClanahan :

dude. We're gonna have my brother in law sister in law and mother in law all went through having Corona virus a couple weeks ago. It was like you really go. Yeah. So I can vouch for the fact that it's real. It's not a hoax.

Michael Mowbray :

Everybody's fine now or

Dan McClanahan :

they're good now. Yeah. Good. They got I mean, it wasn't pleasant. But they kept my father in law from getting it. Which is good cuz he's high risk. Oh, yeah. So anyways, not to make this heavy. I just thought it was interesting to know

Michael Mowbray :

It's hard to not talk about it anymore. You know? It is kind of it's kind of out there.

Dan McClanahan :

It's all over. It's all over Walmart. Yes, question.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah. So, I know we've talked about this before, but what I really find intriguing is when I look at your images, I feel they're so unique and you pull out the personality so well in your clients and also like, it seems like you interject somehow your personality into it without overtaking or maybe that those clients are just hiring you based on your personality, that just really gel like maybe it's all those things together. So, you know, how do you approach a session or how does that happen? I'm sure you just maybe do it without even thinking or kind of explain that Well, um,

Dan McClanahan :

I used to try to plan a lot. So that's, that's what you're supposed to do. And I realized that things never go according to plan. So I end up being disappointed. To. So now if I plan minimally, but still enough to be organized, and then figure it out on the fly results are much better because everything is like a pleasant surprise. So I do a questionnaire once they booked, it's automated. And I get that I text them and see if I can get them on the phone for five minutes and basically figure out what their outfits are and what they want to do. And then if they're into something that would be cool, but they didn't mention wanting to do it. I'll question that. And I found the trend right now is going away from like, I just wonder if the girl has a full ride. D one soccer scholarship, but didn't really want to do any cool soccer stuff. She just wanted like a cute picture with a soccer ball. And the trend is going away from activities being like these identity defining things that remain cool images about so I haven't composite it forever. That's a separate It products now that someone can do as an add on, and I get maybe like a couple per year, but the average person just wants to look really good. So within the context of a location that maybe has meaning and the outfit that they bring, and the read, I get off of them. Yeah, I think part of what you're saying, you notice in the images as I try to, especially now that I have kids, every time I photograph a senior, or anyone for that matter, but particularly seniors, I view them as the beloved child of their parents and like kind of have that lens on as well as the being into pop culture and being into some of the stuff that the kids are into and fuse those together. Because I know that I need to capture the identity of them that when their parents see and they're like, Oh my gosh, that's the look they always give me or that's so them, so I haven't I kind of stopped apologies Dan. I unsubscribed from notifications for like all photography Facebook groups and I honestly followed all of my peers on social media, basically, because I don't want to have what I'm supposed to do in my brain contaminating what I do. So when I shoot, it's very much more of a clean slate. And it's kind of a creative collaboration, where I will listen and try to get a read on the aesthetic that the client is into. And some clients are very much more fashion forward and some are more. They only like natural light, airy stuff, some like the crazy stuff. And if I impose a style on someone that's not them, the images don't work. So a lot of it is listening, discerning and then creating within the parameters of what's appropriate to that client. So I no longer have like an idea that I try and stick them into. I first observe them and then make ideas based on their truth, I guess, which sounds

Unknown Speaker :

maybe

Dan McClanahan :

complicated. are scary or intimidating, but it's so much more freeing than the incestuous nature of like, like I remember one of the last times I posted in your group is a picture of Jen lewis is some catching a giant fish. And then, like two days later, this woman had tried to replicate the image with her son. And like, that's what it turns into when we're in these things is like an idea is photocopied, and it's a fuzzier version of the original and then that gets on Pinterest and gets photocopied. And then like 10 photocopies later you get these trends that are hair pulling out frustrating, like I want to blow glitter at you, type crap.

Unknown Speaker :

And that's,

Dan McClanahan :

I don't know, I got so fed up with that being the culture of our industry that I kind of just shut it off and I'm creating from more of a pure place trying to perceive the client as though they are a loved one of mine because ultimately, that's what's going to give the images value in the long run. Training is always dated, regardless of how well it's done. And I look back at my stuff from even five years ago, that I thought was awesome at the time. And if it doesn't have the expression, or the nuances and body language that is true over the person, it just looks dated. But if you have like a foundation of truth in the identity of the subject, and they are comfortable in their own skin, because you create an environment that's conducive to them coming out of their shell, then the images are timeless regardless of the techniques used. Yes. So that fused with my love of the technical like I sometimes lay awake at night, dreaming about lighting. I want to try and that's very much a passion of mine.

Michael Mowbray :

They're gonna say,

Dan McClanahan :

No, no, I've deleted a bunch of former knowledge from my memory. Now they have a mirrorless camera and creation can be more fluid. What a luxurious I'm living in Yeah, so that's maybe hopefully I answered your question, but I don't know you never know like until you until you actually are in this space with someone like what direction you can go that function so there's always a lot of failures and I like knock on the door. And if I don't like what I see on the inside, we close it and go to another door immediately.

Dan Frievalt :

No, that's, that's, that's perfect and yeah, you don't offend me groups are unfriending like there's, you know, Carl mica we have this discussion every couple weeks where like, I just want to shut the group down. I just want to, you know, disconnect, you know, as well because, you know, I and we had this discussion. What was it kind of a mini topic last week about trends and emulation and things like that. It's easy to get stuck and see something and that's how

Dan McClanahan :

you learn early on. Yeah, so there's nothing inherently wrong with it, but you get to a point where it can stifle you if you don't move past it.

Dan Frievalt :

And and that's the one thing We didn't talk about we kind of talked about, yeah, it's okay to emulate and start to learn and then kind of, like form your own style, own version of it in your own style. But But then the part where we stopped, which is where you're, you know, moving forward now is, yeah, is that it can can kind of hold you back, as well. And that that's an excellent point. So, yeah, I definitely see that. And that's why people kind of what Carol was saying to it's like you can, you've got to the point where you can create what's in your head and you dream about lighting. So it's like at that point, okay, I these people are paying me up front. All I really have to do is 10 images. So let's just, let's just go crazy. This.

Dan McClanahan :

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I've been trying to sneak something experimental into every shoot just to do it. And if they hate it, it's cool.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah. Cuz I find myself in a rut of like, I gotta get these safe images. And then,

Dan McClanahan :

and I was I was in that rut, as well. So

Dan Frievalt :

and then experiment, but it's like, why not just experiment the whole time like, they trust you? They believe

Dan McClanahan :

in you people feed off of passion, I think, like if yes, think about the people that you know that you're drawn to. Because they love what they do, and they lose that. Right? So I can get myself into the space where I am, in that. It's like after hours after dark when we're just going nuts, having a blast, and we don't even care if it turns out good. It's just the process is addicting. If I can get into that space on a shoot, and the client sees that, then that is their validation of the investment. And they buy into it too. Especially if I can get them co creating and all of a sudden we need this thing together that's unique is masterfully compositional, and the light is great, but they don't really even know or care about that stuff. But that's the stuff that makes me excited. And then we're all happy. It's harmonious.

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, and I think looking back at some of my older stuff, being an afterdark it pushed me being around. Yeah, you And so many other creative people push me now that we don't have after dark I can feel I'm just kind of like not as effective as I used to be.

Dan McClanahan :

I found that part of what I've been trying to accomplish in my restructuring is finding a way to take that magic feeling that we had in that environment and make it a lifestyle. So it's not the same by any means, but like enough of it to retain my sanity and keep my

Michael Mowbray :

fire burning. But do it during the daytime. Not at three o'clock in the morning.

Dan McClanahan :

Yeah.

Dan Frievalt :

5am

Carl Caylor :

Well, we were still up at that time. I remember the first time I met you was in in Las Vegas. It was a good one. It was a brutal It was a brutal one. I had shoulder surgery. So I was walking around with pretty much one arm and I got to go to bed. I can't I just can't take it anymore. And then and that's when they like Oh, dude, the circus la people are coming. You gotta stay. Oh yeah, we're staying here. That was awesome.

Dan Frievalt :

Did you say the circus Olay, the circus?

Carl Caylor :

Yeah. jumping around in the stillson Oh my goodness, great. But, but then the number like I said, like, Okay, I gotta go to sleep. I'm just I'm crashed and Dave comes up and he's like, hey, there's this new this new guy that that we brought on and he said he's got this really cool idea you got you gotta you gotta stay here. Can you help me? We're taking all the lights are all the bays the wall and Alex photographed all these circus load people, whatever. With all this all this light from the back in a bad way. Holy crabs. It was a I can't do it. Blow out every who is forgotten. Yeah,

Dan McClanahan :

I was like, you know, that came to light. Dave saw me. And since I was the new guy he did that like passive aggressive thing. You better do something cool tonight. Type comment. I was like, oh crap. So that's what I say all the lights

Carl Caylor :

46 of them I think it was Yeah, it was a lot it was.

Dan Frievalt :

And then and then you got Dan row. He's a fit because every trigger and every stop special boxes that go in scattered everywhere but we got a cool shot

Carl Caylor :

here and then the funny thing is, we kind of get cleaned up from that. I was going back here to finally go to sleep that morning, which was probably around five o'clock when you could be doing your session tomorrow. And I remember Do you smoke we're just about to the room and the door. Our door open from the inside is just like, What the heck? It was a roommate Burbank. He was rooming with us. He was he was coming out to go to the airport. He just woke up. Like, okay, so this is this is the epitome of how afterdark work, you know, I mean, so you just just go until it gets late again, I guess. I don't know. But

Michael Mowbray :

that was the last night. Wow. Yeah, that was

Dan Frievalt :

I don't know why we even paid for room on the last night. I always check we should just check out take a shower,

Dan McClanahan :

you know. Just take all your dirty underwear off the floor.

Unknown Speaker :

Exactly.

Dan Frievalt :

Well, that one guy. He he wasn't even getting rooms anymore. He was just sleeping like on like the love sacks are out on the street, right? And he's like, I'm fine. I'll just sleep on the street. Okay guy was cool. Here. Unfortunately, he passed away a couple years ago. But yeah, he had this big beard. He was just kind of Yeah, nothing really bothered me. He said, Yeah, I'm just gonna sleep forever. I was like, Whoa, okay. Probably not a bad idea.

Carl Caylor :

We had to do that in the room at Tucson anyhow, because all my luggage is, you know, still somewhere around the country who knows where? and sleeping on the floor there too. So

Michael Mowbray :

missiles flying right now.

Unknown Speaker :

Anybody said, Do you

Michael Mowbray :

miss flying right now?

Unknown Speaker :

I do. I do.

Dan Frievalt :

Yes, I do. I want to go somewhere on vacation.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, I could see that. fly anywhere. Yeah,

Dan McClanahan :

I kind of love this because I'm 70% an introvert. So quarantine was kind of nice. Actually.

Carl Caylor :

Didn't seem any different than normal. Yeah. Yeah.

Dan McClanahan :

I mean, I was able to eliminate a lot of obligations and then we Evaluate worth having.

Michael Mowbray :

I worked from home so nothing really changed.

Dan McClanahan :

I do miss em people like you though. That was Yeah, that's been fun.

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, after dark things is fun to me meeting a lot of creatives and you know, doing creative things with creatives is is I think it live in person is somewhat important. Yeah, at least a little bit here and there. Nothing can really match that. I can't

Dan Frievalt :

match that. And it's one of those weird things. It's like because it is taken away. You miss it. It's like, do I want to jump on a plane and fly somewhere tomorrow? No, not necessarily. But no, but not having the option really to do it is kind of like Ah, man, you know, like we're planning things we always do something in the fall. Well, we always do something that in March, which we couldn't do and now kind of planning something for the fall so we were talking about that last night and we have the camper and stuff so it's like hey, maybe we just hope the camper up and road trip it you know, go old school. Got the new truck? Yeah,

Dan McClanahan :

those are more fun anyways, then fly it

Carl Caylor :

down, right? Yeah. So here's a here's a question for you. What was what class or life experience was most important, most helpful for creating your images now are working with your clients.

Dan McClanahan :

I don't know if I can point to a singular thing. I think like the network I made through the after dark existence, it's probably the biggest impact on me by a lot. But it's like a bits and pieces from different people. You know, I would say, Dave Julian has had a profound effect on my psyche and perception of things because he always questions everything, which is great, which gives me the freedom to question everything because we tend to we all really want the answer like a system that we know will work because Then we can have stability. But I think that there's so much variance. I mean, especially when people are teaching about marketing, something that works for someone that lives here is not guaranteed to work anywhere else. It's very much micro markets around the country and being engaged in your community. I think a few years ago, I made a conscious effort to pull back from our industry on national scale and get more engaged on a local level and like go teach it elementary schools and middle schools and meet people that are in my area. Getting a read off of those relationships, I think helps me hone my product for my market better than anything else. But that was using the tools that I was able to learn and master by going to afterdark and picking up a couple of things at each one. And coming home and practicing and building a massive tool. We'll show that maybe I'll use three or four tools off of precession, but at least they're the appropriate ones for the subject. It's not the answer you want it. I don't have like a single profound is the answer. It's a grind. It's, you never stop. And as soon as you have it figured out, everything changes. So

Michael Mowbray :

one thing that's really, really striking me here is that you're laying down a lot more wisdom than we ever do.

Carl Caylor :

Well, there's that.

Michael Mowbray :

We spent 20 minutes talking about mojitos

Carl Caylor :

important to slap that meant, I mean, Dan told us

Dan McClanahan :

like, I've got Mendez like three feet tall right now. Yeah, same here like, and I keep picking it off, and it grows back bigger and we can't get rid of it.

Carl Caylor :

It's awful. dad's house remember mohito? Yes.

Dan McClanahan :

Oh, yeah. Do you just bring the wrong I got the

Michael Mowbray :

Same thing with our bazel so we're basically have Mohit O's and pesto for the next three weeks. Yes, I just made pesto tonight. We did two I made elk. These pesto

Dan McClanahan :

that's one perk of quarantines when we had nothing to do for three months. I built some garden boxes. And we started may two. Yeah,

Dan Frievalt :

I think it's about everybody watching, right?

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah. And I learned how to make sourdough bread.

Carl Caylor :

sourdough bread

Dan McClanahan :

that's beyond me.

Carl Caylor :

requires a bread maker makes it a lot easier. And then oatmeal bread is better than sorry I don't know I like the sour dough just as

Michael Mowbray :

much I guess all you got to have a good starter that's all

Carl Caylor :

Yeah, but the oatmeal bread some good stuff

Dan McClanahan :

with beer. Your bread oh crap. I need to eat before I go to bed.

Carl Caylor :

You guys sleep fast because you know you got a

Dan McClanahan :

session I'll just be I'll just be Short tonight. It's cool. It's like old school college days.

Michael Mowbray :

So any parting shots because you because you do have to get up early. You want to leave us with our listeners or our for listeners with any parting shots. Let me

Dan McClanahan :

tell you anything you want to know, I'm not great at talking about myself. It's interesting when you live in this bubble, like I live in my town and I do my thing and I'm not an extraordinary person. But then when you're a part of this industry, people think that I'm cooler than I am. So your perception of what you think is interesting about me is probably greater than what I think is interesting about myself. Full disclosure.

Michael Mowbray :

So if you have any last questions hit me. I have a last word association ready? Yeah, Andre the Giant.

Unknown Speaker :

No more Rams in

Dan Frievalt :

that minute. Anybody.

Dan McClanahan :

There's a park across the street from our house with like a banjo that has marching music. Simple band concerts in it pretty COVID and they have movie dice a couple times for summer in the last one was Princess Bride and it was awesome.

Michael Mowbray :

Oh, yeah. Awesome. Have you seen any of the stuff on kwibi? No, wherever all these different actors were did redid scenes, like, at home cheese. Oh my god like jack black and just tons and tons of different actors. they redid the entire movie and scene by scene by scene and on kwibi. You can piece it all together. It's hilarious.

Unknown Speaker :

See, classic,

Dan McClanahan :

absolutely class silver lining of quarantine. All these people are innovating and just doing stuff to stay sane. It's great. We're human again.

Michael Mowbray :

Time for our sponsor. All right, ready?

Dan Frievalt :

You sound very

Michael Mowbray :

tired.

Dan Frievalt :

It's a wake up.

Michael Mowbray :

Call. Huge, huge inventory order come in today. So yeah. Anyway, today's episode has been brought to you by Monty Python. Holy Grail ale with more hops than the killer rabbit. This full flavored golden ale has a signature dry finish. It will have you saying she turned me into a newt. And dude after the first sip,

Carl Caylor :

Monty Python's holy grail

Michael Mowbray :

ale from Black Sheep brewery. We want to thank them for virtually sponsoring our podcast.

Carl Caylor :

I'm totally getting that as

Michael Mowbray :

a real thing. I need to make that as a real thing. Every nothing I nothing I say or nothing we say in this podcast is fake. Well, most things, ah, sponsors and sponsors.

Dan McClanahan :

Can they shoot me a bottle of that?

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah. I think it's an England is where it's based on

Carl Caylor :

this one picture of it.

Dan Frievalt :

I mean, one of these days we're just gonna open up a door and there's gonna be a case of some weird liquor. We're like, what is this? I know.

Michael Mowbray :

It'll probably be that gin that's made from ants.

Carl Caylor :

I'd rather have Yes

Dan McClanahan :

Actually I'm just sounds very ecologically friendly.

Michael Mowbray :

Yeah, but not very good tasting. Yeah, there are humanely harvested and

Dan McClanahan :

a crickets the other day that's a big thing really? Because it's a natural sustainable protein source. There's a guy and it's like they sell cricket powder in cricket.

Dan Frievalt :

I eat that Mexico all the time. Yeah,

Carl Caylor :

yeah, people put chocolate on it. You know

Dan Frievalt :

chocolate crickets in hell, let's go area of the Yucatan.

Michael Mowbray :

Chocolate. Maybe you're making up words now, aren't you?

Dan Frievalt :

Yeah, I'm mixing a bunch of stuff together. You can

Michael Mowbray :

say conundrum but you can pronounce all these

Dan McClanahan :

Americans and again since

Dan Frievalt :

the more I drink the more Spanish I know. I

Michael Mowbray :

can. That's all I care.

Dan McClanahan :

That's the one. All right.

Michael Mowbray :

Well, that's all for this week. So Cheers you got

Dan Frievalt :

me stuff Amy. I

Dan McClanahan :

hope to see you in person someday again

Michael Mowbray :

when we get to it,

Unknown Speaker :

last call.

Michael Mowbray :

You've been listening to the photo happy hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to not miss a single action packed episode and join our photo happy hour Facebook group where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You can find my MoLight gear online at www dot gomo life com that's geo mo Li gh t comm you can find the Facebook page under MoLight store and I also run the Godox flash help group on Facebook. You can find Dan SR unlocked website at www dot seniors unlocked.com that's seniors with an S at the end unlocked.com and the Facebook group under seniors unlocked and you can find Carl's coaching corner@www.cc photo coach comm cc photo coach.com Till next time, cheers to you.

Liam :

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want me to pay you to subscribe, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you subscribe now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will annoy you