Photo Happy Hour

The Jenn Lewis Interview: easy ways to increase your sales averages and much more

October 02, 2020 Michael Mowbray, Carl Caylor, Dan Frievalt, Jenn Lewis Season 1 Episode 24
Photo Happy Hour
The Jenn Lewis Interview: easy ways to increase your sales averages and much more
Show Notes Transcript

This week we chat with senior photographer and business/sales guru Jenn Lewis from Clemmons, North Carolina. In between a lot of laughs and fun we layout some solid business and sales advice that could help you increase your sales immediately. We also hear about Jenn's self challenge for October: add on $25k in sales in 30 days -- and the answer isn't doing 500 $50 mini sessions. Along the way we chat about about the pros and cons of buying a building (watch out for counterfeiters and the EPA), and debate about "cattycorner" versus "kittycorner".

Pop culture references include Catch Me If You Can, The Big Lebowski, Shawshank Redemption, The Waterboy, Seinfeld, and Dances with Wolves. Dan even name drops a new star, Leonardo DeCraprio.

Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play".  And don't forget to subscribe!

Learn more about Jenn at: https://www.jennlewisphotography.com/

Your Hosts:
Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com

Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com

Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner.  Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
www.ccphotocoach.com

MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.

Michael Mowbray:

Recorded live from Cheryl's she shed. It's the photo happy hour

Unknown:

podcast.

Michael Mowbray:

Hey, and welcome everybody come on in and grab a seat at the bar. I'm your photo happy hour. bartender Michael Mowbray and I'm serving up icy bottles of photography bs today. Joining me behind the bar are Dan Frievalt. And Carl Caylor. Say Hey, guys,

Dan Frievalt:

Hey, what's up everyone?

Carl Caylor:

I was waving in case you didn't hear that.

Michael Mowbray:

Wave waving always works in audio. Yeah, exactly. Yes. To make more noise when you wave. Shoulder to pop a little bit. There we go.

Carl Caylor:

Now we don't want to do that anymore.

Michael Mowbray:

So what do you guys drinking today?

Dan Frievalt:

very disappointed Chardonnay. And I'm thinking of

Michael Mowbray:

don't always go together.

Dan Frievalt:

Think I'm gonna break and grab a whole garden beer. It's kind of fall so

Michael Mowbray:

fancy. What do you got Carl? Oh, well, let me guess. Tennessee whiskey. You betcha. We're just gonna skip over you from now on this

Carl Caylor:

variety. Well, in case I do have something else, you know, I'll let you know.

Michael Mowbray:

It's turning into like the chicken nuggets of what we're drinking. Exactly. And I'm having a 10 Year Old Port Charlotte. scotch, very peaty.

Carl Caylor:

Ooh, and you have that custom cube thingy in there. Again,

Michael Mowbray:

react. I've got my granite in there. It's from brancati.

Carl Caylor:

God bless you.

Michael Mowbray:

Brooklyn. brewery you're not brewery distillery in Scotland. So anyway, if you're joining us for the first time, we're off to a rip and rip barn starts so far. You're joining us for the first time. We are three professional photographers who have been around for a while. And we'd like to get together and have a few drinks. And the more we drink, the more we know. And the more bs we spill. So spiel.

Carl Caylor:

so spicy spiel? Yeah, let's go with it.

Michael Mowbray:

So every week we typically have a topic, but for this week, we do not. We have a guest. Our guest. You guys know who our guest is?

Carl Caylor:

I do. I'll tell you I could. Yeah, I could see her.

Unknown:

She's right. underneath you there.

Michael Mowbray:

Oh, she's here. Um, our guest this week is Jan Lewis. A photographer from is it pronounced kleem owns t mons.

Jenn Lewis:

So close. Clemens.

Unknown:

Oh, God. That's so good to see that. It makes them so happy Dan. The poop

Michael Mowbray:

emoji has already been fired today. So anyway, Jan is a photographer in Clemens, North Carolina. And she specializes mostly in seniors and headshots, and has a passion about the business side of photography, especially sales. So we're gonna talk about some business. We'll talk about some sales will go off about 14 different tangents and then in about an hour from now, we'll try to figure out what the hell we talked about.

Dan Frievalt:

Drink and and as you mentioned, sales like three quarters of people just skip to the next episode. Not because of you, Jen. But just you know, yeah, whatever sales comes up. It's the least sexy topic that there is right?

Unknown:

I know taking amazing photos is sexy, but making money i think is pretty sexy, too.

Michael Mowbray:

I agree with that.

Dan Frievalt:

I think spending money is pretty sexy myself. That's still hard to do. But it's spending that I could I have a blast with that man.

Michael Mowbray:

Next year spending somebody else's money. Ooh,

Carl Caylor:

that's true. Let's talk about that. Banking again. Somebody else's money,

Dan Frievalt:

which is why it's so easy to refer more like gear to everyone. Right.

Unknown:

Small Yes.

Carl Caylor:

Just a few of those.

Michael Mowbray:

I think you might have collections. You need. You need one of those new those new LED ones that do multiple colors.

Unknown:

Multiple of those led ones in multiple colors. I am I did not remember you saying anything about that. And then I saw the post on Facebook and I'm pretty freakin excited. Well, you know, I had the LC 500 just like the regular one. I love it. So yeah, I want I like making things colors. So

Michael Mowbray:

I didn't say anything because I forgot that I had ordered them and then they showed up. Oh yeah,

Unknown:

well, you should probably like send me one and forget that you sent me one and then send me another one. No.

Dan Frievalt:

All right, let's try

Unknown:

next. You gotta

Dan Frievalt:

get the picture at the end of the episode after his his scotch is kicked in a little bit more. Yeah,

Unknown:

everybody gets one, you should refill that glass Michael. bottle. I'm excited. There it is. Yeah,

Michael Mowbray:

I can't get up and go over to the bar, I bring my bottle with me.

Carl Caylor:

He brings the bar with him.

Michael Mowbray:

So Jen, you gave yourself a kind of an interesting challenge lately?

Unknown:

I did.

Michael Mowbray:

And tell us about that. What is it and why?

Unknown:

So I for the last like six I've been renting in the studio that I've been renting here for Well, not the studio, but two different spots in the same building for almost seven years. And for the last like six years, I just look periodically and see what kind of properties or commercial properties are for sale. And for the first time in six years, I actually found one that was interesting enough to go look at. So I went to look at it the other day, it's an old, it's not an old gas station, although it kind of looks like it. But it's an old like mechanic's garage. And I wanted something unique, like all the properties that are for sale around here are all like, you know, medical offices, buildings that were built in, like the 70s. And they all look the same. And they all have like ugly carpet and eight foot ceilings. And you know, the same thing, which is not really my vision for a studio. So, so yeah, I just kind of look periodically, and with COVID going on, I've been looking a little more often, um, just because I thought you know, with people in situations now, or they may be selling buildings or something like that. So obviously, good time to look in the interest rates are low, but really, really terrible time to try to buy because, you know, volumes down quite a bit from where it normally is this time of year. And so anyway, I found it and went to look the other day, and I was really hoping I would hate it. That was like that would have been the easiest thing is if I went in and was like, Oh, this is terrible. It's not gonna work. Nevermind. But that's not what happened. I think it's got a ton of potential. I sent Dan photos the other day. So he's seen the photos from it, think it's got a lot of potential, it does need some work, but mostly cosmetic. Um, and anyway, so I'm meeting with a banker on Monday, to see what my financial options are to go ahead and proceed with like making an offer. So that's what I mean. It's very adulty for me, so I'm a little nervous.

Michael Mowbray:

Yeah, it's very adulty for you. One thing that just occurred to me, and this is gonna get, you know, way too dry in business, see, if it was a former, like mechanics place where the work in cars and such, you want to probably make sure that that site is been cleared and doesn't have to be bio remediated because of oil leakage and toxic things into the ground because you wouldn't want to buy the property. And then the EPA comes in says, Hey, you got to spend $300,000 to bio remediate this ground. Yeah, be like, yeah, I didn't talk. I didn't toxify the ground. Somebody else. I know people who they don't care.

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, right. I know, people that have happened to them.

Dan Frievalt:

It's it's the first thing I tell her when she sent the photos. Yeah. So it's kind of funny. And her friend said the same thing. So so good, that good. Yeah, that I didn't realize when I looked at a building, but apparently it is quite common. And she already knew and stuff. So it's funny that you said that right away? Absolutely. laughing like, Ah,

Michael Mowbray:

well, we have good friends that that's their company. They go to all these Superfund sites, and they're an engineering company that goes in and, and fixes all that stuff.

Carl Caylor:

Carl, is that, you? Know, it's my boy, Colin. But yes, it was me.

Unknown:

No, it wasn't you calling Carl. Thank you. This is

Michael Mowbray:

the reason why we do the podcast like this because I get four different audio feeds that I can just say kids and just turn it off. Like I do most things.

Carl Caylor:

That's, that's a good thing. You know, it's a good thing to have.

Unknown:

So yeah, the challenge though, for So what I'm doing is because I'm not really in a position to go buy a building right now. I'm down about 50 k from what I normally am this time of year. And so normal years, I would just say Wouldn't it be a no brainer if I wanted it, you know, but this year is a little different. So I've given myself a 25,030 Days Challenge. So my goal is to raise

Michael Mowbray:

35,000 in 30 day, so how many years is that? 25 3030

Unknown:

days, so my birthday is October 23. So that's my goal is to get the extra 25,000 for to help with a down payment by my birthday.

Michael Mowbray:

That's 68 years by the way.

Unknown:

Thank you

Carl Caylor:

Do the math.

Unknown:

I appreciate that.

Carl Caylor:

Damn Daniel. And he did math again.

Michael Mowbray:

Did math go drink? We do math. We have to do drink.

Unknown:

Yeah. Well, you know, you guys know basically a five year old. So

Carl Caylor:

I know. Next time we will just make you have alligator bites again.

Unknown:

Oh, gosh. Yeah.

Carl Caylor:

My favorite Gen Ed alligator with us and didn't like it. We don't know where we're at Indus River.

Unknown:

Yeah, Roberta. Yeah. Yeah. And that was awful. And I almost gagged and vomited. But I didn't. So your walk

Michael Mowbray:

you had a you didn't have a pleasant look on your face. I was enjoying it. But

Dan Frievalt:

so so what's your plan of action? Yeah, what's

Carl Caylor:

thousand dollars here?

Unknown:

So, um, yeah, I'm, like, go. Carl's gonna take care of that. For me, we should take my idea. We mentioned sales earlier being kind of my jam. So I always like to give myself sales challenges. So my sales average for seniors is 4500. And my sales average for families is typically around the same, sometimes a little higher. I don't do as many family so um, but it's usually around 5000. But again, I don't do as many of those and a lot of my families currently are like one child families. So those averages won't be as high because I'm not doing separate Walmart for each kid, you know, for kids or whatever. So, um, but anyway, yeah, so I'm, I'm pushing family sessions more than I normally do. Um, I am following up with seniors, I'm gonna be doing a workshop here in the studio, I am going to offer I'm presenting to my, my networking group, which I do, I'm huge on the networking groups. So I'm really involved in my networking group and actually present to them a week from Wednesday. So when I present to them, I'm going to do a headshot offer and a and a commercial video offer because I do commercial video as well. So I'm going to do offers for those. And it'll be a like you have to book and pay within a week, but then you're going to get this special deal. And that'll be good till the end of the year or something like that. So anyway, yeah, so I've got I have a list in my office of, like, you know, basically my plan outlined is to as far as like the families that I know will book that have been wanting to book and I'm like, okay, now's the time, it's October, almost, it's beautiful weather outside, like, it's finally not, I'm in North Carolina. So it's like, you know, 987% humidity normally, and you know, 112 degrees and all that. And it's finally cooled down into the 70s. And, you know, the well, humidity, it's raining today. But humidity is not quite as bad and that kind of thing. So I'm like, this is the time let's do it. I'm doing my family sessions, I'm giving them an extra I'm giving them $100 print credit, if they book on a weekday, so I'm trying to fill up the weekdays like that with that hundred dollar print credit. And, and if for you guys, I don't know if you guys know, I know Dan does. But with my seniors I actually do if they book a senior experience, which is what I'm most known for, if they book is SR experience, they get a free family session. So I don't charge for the family session, I just give that to them. And they can buy what they want. There's no minimum purchase or anything. However, they're qualified clients, because they've already done a session with me, I already know they're spending four or $5,000 with me, for a senior, they're going to do that with a senior, they're typically going to do that with a family as well, or at least do very well with it. The sessions are like 45 minutes or an hour typically the family so it's a lot less time you know, and still make a good amount of money. So if I can line those up, and like I said, throw in the extra hundred dollar print credit in there for a week day bookings and that kind of thing. I think. I think I can pull it together.

Michael Mowbray:

So you're you're not gonna do the the mini session idea. I had no.

Unknown:

Sessions$50 Mini sessions, and I only need about $500,000 Yeah, it's math once once more. So it's just a couple days in the park. Come on.

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, a couple days.

Unknown:

I can't even imagine,

Dan Frievalt:

as I say you bring up a good point that we mentioned many episodes ago, I believe I'm stretching my memory. But you know, we have pre qualified clients. And you know, if you've been in business for a year or more, you know, those past clients, you can go back and and just ask them, Hey, do you want a free family session because you're a past client like mine, or is set up to be taken advantage of in October. But that doesn't mean I can't go back and be like, Hey, I'll still honor that. So if there's ever a time of need or her like cash flow problems, you just go back to the wild because like you said they're pre qualified and I think A lot of people get caught up in how do I get new clients? How do I get new? How do I get new? And it's just like, Hey, you know, you're not pestering those, the you know, they probably were like, oh, my goodness, yes. I always wanted to do that. Thank you for reminding me. Let's get it done. You know, and

Unknown:

yeah, definitely. And my clients that I have right now, like my current seniors, so I the first ones, I've already emailed my 2020, Senior parents, to offer it to them to remind them, because I've already talked to all of them about it. So the ones that haven't done it yet, I'm reminding them. And also, I'm my 2021 seniors, when they come in, I tell them, we do senior photos in the fall and family photos in the spring, because I'm slower in the spring. And that's when I do the families. Of course, I was shut down all of spring this year. So I didn't get to do my 2020 seniors, families in the spring. And then also because I'm slower right now than I normally AM. And all my weekends aren't booked like they normally are. I'm letting them know, like, you don't have to wait till spring, if you guys want to go ahead and do your family session, if you want to fall family session. Let's schedule it. So I told them, I've been telling them all that I'm trying to book those out for October. So yeah, trying to get that trying to get hit hit my goal, you know, but it's the goal, I think I can hit the goal without a problem. But even if I can't, I'll come close. And even if I don't buy the building, I'll have extra money in my account. So I figured, you know, can't lose that situation.

Carl Caylor:

So just because I think that's a great idea. And a great goal, too, by the way, that whether we're trying to get a building and how we can all make these kinds of goals. But for the family things, stay on this topic for a minute. Always. Are you really going to push more for people that were here last year in the year before and the year before that, compared to the seniors who just photograph this summer? And the reason I ask is that, by us, I mean, I've a couple times now they take advantage Oh, you got a free session with, you know, fairly senior portrait over$1,000. But then they are like, well, you already you already got a couple thousand dollars from us. And we don't have any money to spend on the family stuff. So maybe we'll just do a Christmas cards right now. And then maybe in a year or two, we'll order a wall portrait, which you know, they never will. So I guess my thought is, do we really target more people from two or three years ago? Is that a better goal or a better thought?

Unknown:

For me? I am. My clients don't tend to give me that blind like honestly, like they just they know they had a great experience. And honestly, the more recent the experiences, the more it's fresh in their mind. And the more they they're excited about doing it again, the ones in my experience that are from a couple of years ago, because I still follow up with them if they didn't book it. But the ones from a couple of years ago, they tend to put it off more because they haven't done it yet. And they're like, Oh, yeah, we'll do it. We'll get around to it or whatever. But the ones that have a more recent experience, say it's such a great time they want to do it again. Because usually the mom comes at the senior and not always for me because I don't require a parent to be there. It's different. I'm a girl, so I can get away with that. But oh, no, no, no, no. Anyway, but so yeah, so they want to have that experience again. And so it's so for me, it's easier to book more recent people and none of them have ever, you know, said anything, like we already gave you all our money, but also whenever they book Originally, I let them know when they're booking during the consultation that they also get a free family session. And I can gauge really well then on whether they're like, Oh my god, she asked, we haven't had a family portraits, and she was four. And we need to update that before she leaves. And I always tell him like, if you've had kids who have gone to college, you know, once they leave, it's really hard to get them to come back to do a family portrait. So you got to do it before they leave. And if they do come back home for a weekend, they're coming to go to a concert with their friends, they're not coming for family portraits. So I always try to get them of course right now, no concerts going on, it might be a little easier. Yeah, the kids are getting sent home from college anyway. So, um, but you know, it's time to do family portraits. That's exactly what I'm telling them to, because a lot of my kids have already been sent home, my 2020 kids, half of them have already been sent home. So they're home, now they're doing school online, I'm like, we could do it a weekday, you know, start at 530 and be done in an hour. And you know, make it nice and easy for them. So

Carl Caylor:

I think a lot of it comes down to then the demographics that you're in, because I mean, by us and the reason I brought this up is a lot of our seniors, the people that are telling me this there's been like a 10th of their household income on their senior portraits. And it's not that they didn't have a great experience or don't want to believe in the product. They just don't have the money to do it. And so that's why I'm thinking for those in my situation, you know, to go back a year to when they they're already recouping a bit on that money, you know, getting letting those accounts get a little bit built back up again. So

Unknown:

Yeah, I don't disagree with that at all. I just I don't have I don't know, my clients. My clients are not like, you know, super wealthy people, they're mostly small business owners that just do really well for themselves. And, you know, so they're, you know, they're not flashy big man to not most of them. I do have a handful like that. But, you know, it's, uh, but you know, they're cool down to earth people, and they just like working with me. And so I'm hoping to get most of them scheduled. And I think it's good for them too, because most of the clients that I have come in, they haven't had a family portrait since the kids were like, tiny. It's like the same answer every single time. It's very rare that I'll hear Oh, we had it done when she was 12. Like, that's recent, compared to most of the answers. Usually, it's like when they were toddlers, and it was at the beach for a weekend or something like that. So I think it's good for the parents, too. As a parent of teenagers, that's something I think is really important.

Dan Frievalt:

And one thing, Carl, maybe a suggestion, if that is happening is do some sort of, Okay, well, I'll do X amount off their Christmas cards. If you order the portrait today, you know, day kind of thing, you know, or what I would do, it's a, it's 100, even though the family sessions free, they have to put $100 down to hold that date, that then goes towards the order. And that Yep, kind of helps with some of those objections. And some of the things Jen was saying, too, it's like, hey, now's the time. And I don't maybe it doesn't happen as often for me, because I really don't push Christmas cards at all. You know, I'm saying, Hey, get the family portrait. And, you know, you can get, that's where I will sell a digital file for, for release, because I don't want to screw around with with Christmas cards, I'd rather sell the file to them. Even if it's only $100 a file, they get three, four files. I don't have to mess with it. I don't have to worry about printing or typos or delivering them on Christmas morning because they didn't come in and the lab wasn't there. And yeah, all that stuff. It's

Unknown:

typos. Especially Dan, right.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, I'm even. I'm kind of known for my typos.

Unknown:

No,

Michael Mowbray:

we haven't talked about that multiple times.

Carl Caylor:

No, K and o w. So john, you just remind me of something, by the way, for the families another incentive, because you mentioned, like myself, a lot of the people that I have that I work with, are business owners are small business owners in the area. And I always remind them, why don't you remind me say, so you're going to display some of these family portraits in your studio or in your in your business, right? And they're like, What do you mean, I said, Well, your business can buy these. And you can, you know, write it off in your business. And because it is, you know, you're promoting your marketing, that you're a family person that this is our family. And so really, if they display these in their in their place of business, which helps us to, they can use it as a write off on their business as well. So make sure you mention that because it might attract more the small business owners in your area as well.

Unknown:

That's a great idea. I like that idea a lot.

Michael Mowbray:

So what's the number one mistake that many newer photographers or even photographers who have been around for a while, what's the number one mistake they make when it comes to sales?

Unknown:

Oh, gosh, number one, because I think, you know, the challenge that I see most of them facing is not valuing themselves, and basing their cost or their pricing or their sales model on other people in their area. Like that is it kills me or, you know, I mean, and obviously, I hear a lot of, especially from Carl like, well in my area, but it's you know, but you can sell you can really sell anywhere. And I know photographers who are in tiny, depressed towns who still do really well with sales, you know, they may get there the majority of their clients from you know, the town 3030 minutes or an hour away, but they can do really well. But yeah, I think I think looking at their competition and saying, Oh, well, all these people in my area are doing this. So I can't be more expensive than them, you know, they're good. They're, you know, whatever. And they're all selling for $200 for a session with a file. So that's what I have to do too. So I think not valuing you know, because it's we offer so much more than just the session and the files and just you know, a quick shoot I mean, I'm you know, I put a lot more effort into my clients but I also only have to shoot 40 per year to be able to make a good living with it. And so the way I look at it, you know, I'm, you know, I'm a lot more expensive, but as long as I have people knocking on my door, I'm doing something right, you know, so and I still have clients lined up and even though he had Even a time like this when people would you know, everybody's like, oh, no COVID Do I have to drop my prices? You know, do I need to? And no, I mean, I didn't make any changes at all. And so I think, I think just comparing yourself to other people, especially because you don't know if those other people are even profitable, nine exam arts, so you can compare your cost of doing business is going to be different, your you know, they're not profitable, you don't want to follow their sales model and you don't know and even if you ask them 90% of the time, they either don't know they're not profitable, or they're not going to admit that they're not profitable. So, like stop basing your business on other people's businesses.

Michael Mowbray:

So let's get back to this building thing, Jen. So what else can you tell us about that? Because I think that's intriguing.

Unknown:

Uh, yeah, it's a it's a pretty cool space. The Bay where they used to work on the cars, I guess it's like, my entire studio could fit just in that part. So it's a pretty cool space. Um, I walked across the street to meet a business owner. Um, that was that was across the street. She was a friend of my friend that was with me. So we walked over there and started chatting with her. And we were telling her that I was looking at the building. And she said, Oh, you're looking at the the old service station. She said that guy that was in there before. He was a guy from up north. And he was a counterfeiter. And apparently, like, he took off in the middle of the night like disappeared, he left behind the printers, the plates to print the money sheets of uncut $20 bills, and like level three,

Carl Caylor:

get your 25 and that's where you get your money. Jen, got your answer right there. That's what,

Unknown:

that's what Dan said. I'm like, I'm gonna have to go open up all the walls and everything and see if he left any souvenirs behind. But uh, yeah, apparently the FBI and whoever like what other detectives and stuff they were like all over that building after he disappeared and they still have not found him.

Michael Mowbray:

So he's in Mexico. He's living a good life.

Unknown:

Yeah, he's not in the US anymore. I guarantee that but,

Michael Mowbray:

man, Dan keeps talking about like, what's that? Was that beach again? Chupacabra? Is that the beach or

Carl Caylor:

say water? Nao? I think that's what you're talking about. The beach from the movie

Michael Mowbray:

about the stuff or the stuff

Carl Caylor:

for the place for them to jail and he broke out and he went there and

Michael Mowbray:

Dan, Yeah, you did. You did? You did? Yeah. You're just making

Dan Frievalt:

Shawshank Redemption. Thank you for watching our last episode for more details about the Shawshank Redemption.

Michael Mowbray:

Well, listen, we do flashbacks. Yeah, we bring it all back. So

Dan Frievalt:

maybe if the EPA does come it might actually be a benefit. It's gonna cost you like 20 grand to remove this oil, but they're gonna find you know, who knows, you know, dollars.

Carl Caylor:

Some remains of bodies or something. Right?

Unknown:

My fear is that like, somebody is coming after him. And they're gonna show up and I'm gonna be in the studio and be like, I swear, I don't know. I don't know where the money is hidden. But yeah. Pretty crazy story though. Like, I'm like, that's kind of cool. It's a little scary, but it's kind of cool. So

Michael Mowbray:

boskie

Unknown:

they had the they had the windows like they had sprayed that fog stuff on the windows and everything so people couldn't see in and so you can tell they've been like working on scraping all that off. So

Carl Caylor:

so but by no most people in the neighborhood know about that a?

Unknown:

Yeah, I guess so. The lady across the street. There's not like a lot of it's kind of it's downtown, but it's on a street that doesn't have a ton. There's like one building across the street like caddy corner that has like maybe three businesses in it. And that's about it. Like right immediately right there. Everything else is at least couple blocks down so

Dan Frievalt:

you should was it play out? That was the previous owner's name Frank Abigail.

Unknown:

I don't I don't know. Dan, let me look that up for you. Who is that? You guys I don't watch anything.

Dan Frievalt:

It's from it's a movie quotes. Yeah, movie reference. I should say that movie. The crappy Oh, and Oh, what's this? Tom Hanks Tom Hanks.

Unknown:

Thanks. Yeah,

Dan Frievalt:

yeah. Catch me. If you can. Yes. Yeah.

Carl Caylor:

But no, seriously, I would I would really play off of that a little bit and say, you know, because everyone thought your nose there was a counterfeiter there. You should name your studio like the real deal or something like that. You know, this is a real thing. I mean, it would be a play. I mean, if I see if you can find photographs of if you still if the if the money if the place You're still on there the printing machines take pictures of them and post those

Unknown:

Yeah, sure took all that stuff away. Well as

Dan Frievalt:

well, instead of having your striped wall you're gonna have a wall which is like 20s in the hundreds place plaster

Unknown:

money bank.

Dan Frievalt:

I can make you some some overlays, like my music sheets are the money's

Unknown:

like with money like the ceiling. Yeah.

Carl Caylor:

Cool.

Dan Frievalt:

Instead of Giveaways camera dress we can do hundred dollar bill dress.

Unknown:

Yeah. She don't normally finance that.

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, I'll get right on that. Pants. You know, it's in the pockets. Hurricane cannon? Yeah, we have all kinds of stuff. It's like a you every week, Dan usually is the one that creates new words and stuff. But Jen, I gotta ask you. I know you. First of all you referenced up north. And I'm like, Yeah. What are you? There is no up north in North Carolina. First of all, and second of all, catty corner. caddy corner or kitty corner. Do you mean it's like diagonal across the street? That's kitty corner night. I mean, we say kitty corner don't we guys? caddy corner.

Dan Frievalt:

I have heard caddy corner. I mean you say side by each? I do. So side by side.

Unknown:

Water bubbler or side by each fountain.

Carl Caylor:

See, there you go. Okay.

Dan Frievalt:

It's a water bubbler in Wisconsin because the original maker call it that it's kind of like Coca Cola is a brand or a Tommy next. Yeah. Zero. No, no, I pop. It's a it's like a brand name. Oh, brand name. Yeah. Yeah. So in Wisconsin is one of the only places where you hear bubbler, bubbler. Yeah. And everyone else is like what? bubbler what

Carl Caylor:

it's a waterphone. You know it drink some h2o. That's the thing.

Dan Frievalt:

Quality at

Unknown:

speaking.

Michael Mowbray:

He was from North Carolina was me. Anyway, um, this is the time when we do our guest appearance

Dan Frievalt:

sales. I don't know where we're talking about.

Michael Mowbray:

word association. Oh, yeah. So we go

Carl Caylor:

forth tangent we got tend to go. Oh, yeah.

Michael Mowbray:

So with every guest we do word association. So I throw a word out at you. And you tell us what it means to you. Ready? Moscato.

Unknown:

The best wine ever.

Michael Mowbray:

All right, Michigan. Oh,

Unknown:

I guess the look on my face.

Michael Mowbray:

She looked she looked very happy for those.

Carl Caylor:

If you don't know by now, Jen is a graduate of

Unknown:

the Oh, are you a graduate from the night I was gonna correct.

Michael Mowbray:

While she attended,

Unknown:

I attended, I did not graduate. I got kicked out

Carl Caylor:

at a girl.

Unknown:

Not to my father's dismay, I got kicked out. So yeah,

Dan Frievalt:

so why why Ohio State.

Unknown:

Um, I was I graduated from high school. When I was living in England. My dad was Air Force. And so we were in England and I started college over there on the Air Force Base. They had like a University of Maryland had a division there on the Air Force Base. So you could take classes on base. And I did that. And then when my dad got stationed back in the States, we ended up in Ohio. And he said, You need to pick a college. And I was like, I didn't want to go to the one in town. And Dayton because it was too close to home. I didn't want to live at home. I wanted an excuse to move away and go like live in a dorm. So I was like I've heard of Ohio State. I was like that's literally how I picked the school. And but you can't attend Ohio State and not become a huge fan of their sports teams. And I like football and stuff anyway, so I've always been into sports but you can't go there and not and not just you just kind of fall and all that so so yeah, became a huge fan. I went there when Eddie George was in school there and Orlando pace and yeah, we had some we had some talented guys on the team for sure.

Michael Mowbray:

So you're a big Buckeye fan.

Unknown:

That's how you pronounce it. So close. Okay, but yeah, next good stuff.

Michael Mowbray:

Next word, Gator.

Unknown:

Gross.

Michael Mowbray:

Okay, next word. Jordan. Your best friend Jordan. Oh, that's took

Unknown:

me a minute. You guys say a different name every single time. Oh, Joshua. Dan calls him Jared. Jared. Oh, Tara. Like, wow, that's funny.

Michael Mowbray:

Okay, last one. Thin Mints.

Unknown:

Oh, they are the best. My favorite.

Michael Mowbray:

Yeah. You have a Girl Scout hookup down there. Um

Unknown:

that sounds so creepy when you say

Carl Caylor:

can't disagree with her there guys that did some pretty creepy.

Unknown:

Thank you. I was like you are the bomb. You must have been on my main den page on my website. You

Michael Mowbray:

know, I'm not there, right? Yeah.

Dan Frievalt:

When I worked at Martini bar, we had a drink called the dirty girl scout, which is Yeah,

Michael Mowbray:

that's, that's worse than what I said.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, it is. It was it was popular drink.

Unknown:

So there was

Dan Frievalt:

in the man's cream vodka crushed up, like chocolate Oreos on the rim? Yeah. Oh, wow.

Unknown:

That sounds amazing. You should make that for me next time I see you. Um, there is like, there was a guy. When I worked at one of my old jobs. When I was working in a call center. There was a guy there that told me one time he said, and he was okay. I should preface by saying he was shorter than me. You know, pretty overweight, you know, that kind of thing. And he was like, I have the body of a supermodel and I was like, okay, and he was like, I keep it in my freezer. The same again. I'm like, he'd always creeped me out before but when he said that, and he just walks away. And I'm like, know if I should report this. Or, or what? Anyway, so yeah, there you go. Whoa, Michael. I can tell.

Michael Mowbray:

We live in the land of Jeffrey Dahmer. So

Unknown:

he went to my car wash

Michael Mowbray:

it in the freezer?

Carl Caylor:

Exactly. It says in the freezer, it's still fresh. A jenica question for you. What? Why? How did you? Where did you come up with sales? I mean, where did you learn sales? What's your background from that? Because did you get it from Ohio? It was it was a Dan. Hello, Dan.

Unknown:

everything I know about everything in life that's valuable came from Dan Frievalt. So

Dan Frievalt:

but but not directly. She took everything I did and did the opposite of

Unknown:

actually, that's true. It works better. What can I say? Uh, yeah, I guess. Um, so I think a lot of it, um, came as far as like, wanting to, you know, learn more. And when I started teaching, it was because I wanted to be somebody that I didn't have when I was learning everything. And I like giving people the cliffnotes like, Don't make all the dumb mistakes I made just do this. And it's going to work, you know, and I wish I'd had somebody who could have taught me that and convince me of that when I was starting out. But it's been a passion of mine, because I started out 13 years ago, shooting burning for$55 a session,

Michael Mowbray:

I was just gonna ask you, what was your pricing back then? So that's the lesson for everybody. You know, we all started Wow, I don't know if all of us did, but I started pretty cheap. You started cheap. So how do we get what we get now? We figured crap out. And we raise the price, right?

Unknown:

Yeah. I mean, you either burn out or you figure it out. And so we figured it out. You know? Because like it didn't you know, I was my kids were a little then. So my, my youngest is 14. So he was a year old when I started my business. And you know, my other boys are 18 to 19. So they were young and I was missing soccer games and missing time with them and

Michael Mowbray:

all that. That's okay. That's actually okay. soccer games.

Unknown:

I used to love watching them play soccer. My oldest though he got embarrassed because I would always yell at him when he was like, go Jake, and he's like, Mom, please just shut up.

Carl Caylor:

That's okay. My wife always yells at the kids.

Unknown:

My baby.

Carl Caylor:

Oh gosh. Oh my gosh, like sit other places in the bleachers have

Unknown:

Yeah, I would have to my gosh, that's funny. Um, but yeah, I think, you know, you kind of figure out that you're not making anything so I remember being like going from 55 to $75 for a session. They being scared to death that people wouldn't think I was worth it. And you know, that kind of thing. And, you know, went from that to 100. And then you know, 125. And every single time I made those tiny jumps that seemed ridiculous. Now, I was terrified that it wasn't going to work that people were going to stop booking me that, you know, because there's always somebody who will do it cheaper, even when you're $55, or somebody will do it cheaper. And when you're in that kind of price range, people are booking you, they're not booking you, because of the experience you give them. They're not booking you, even for your talent, they're booking you because you're cheap. And they might be booking you because you're decent, and you're cheap, but they're booking you because you're cheap. And so if somebody comes along who's you know, got the same skill level, and there are $20 cheaper, they're gonna go book them, like they're, you know, their Bay, they're booking based on price alone. So I was always nervous and ended up at an after dark and took a class with David and Whitney Scott. And I, that changed my life, like, I went home, and at the time I was doing, I was doing 350. So it was like $75 for a session, and they could buy the CD for 350. Or they could order from my online gallery, which they never did. And if they did, they spent like $85. So my average is 350. Because most of them got the CD at that point. And so I went and took this class on in person sales, and I honestly didn't know anything about it. Um, everybody I knew were selling digital images, everybody, I didn't know anybody who was doing in person sales. So I went and sat in this class, because it talked about being able to make more money. And that always sounds good. And I didn't do just like what Dan, I do, like,

Dan Frievalt:

you and two other people were in that class. Why? While 50 other people were watching this? Yeah. Cuz that was the sexy part. Right?

Unknown:

Yeah, it was a very small class. That is true, for sure. But the but you know, I did the same thing with you know, that I did a few years back with Dan, I learned from them. And then I did things different, because I felt like you know, what would fit me better or whatever. So for one you don't always have now there are some parts and sales that are really important that you do the same. You know, there are certain things but like, you know, Dan is successful a sales, I'm successful a sales, we don't do it the same way. So it doesn't have to it can be what fits you and your clients and everything better. But there are certain things and whenever I teach about it, I always point out like now this part you have to do just like this, or it's not going to work. You know, this part you have to do just like this. The other stuff you can tweak, you know, you can tweak your prices a little bit, you can tweak what products you offer, you know you can do, there are a couple things you can do differently. But some of the processes are stuff that have to stay there.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah. Speaking of which, what do you feel? Like if someone? What would be the number one tip that people that's a fail? Like a fail safe? Number one thing you would recommend that would instantly increase their sales? overnight? put you on the spot? Because Yeah, I always say

Unknown:

I mean, increasing the sales overnight. I think I think a lot of it is when I jumped from like 25, I was at 2300 or so sales average. And then my sales average immediately went up to about 4000. When I realized I was not the products that I was selling at the prices I was selling them at, I was not going to be able to hit a higher sales average because they could get everything they wanted for 20 $300. Why are they going to spend more, so you have to make sure that you are charging. And you know, because people are like I was like I know people get four or $5,000 averages. But I didn't know why I wasn't. And a friend of mine who's not even a photographer is the one that said, well, when they spend 20 $300. What are they getting? I'm like, wow, they get, you know, an album, they get Walmart, and then they get some prints. And he's like, well, where are they going to spend more than 2300 then, and I'm like, Oh, so I added products that I wasn't offering before which actually at the time it was digital images, not that I wasn't offering them but I added them in a different way to make them more appealing. And so I added the digital images and I raised my prices across the board. And my sales average immediately went from 2300 ish to 4000 with it I mean like every sales session after that was over 2300 just about so

Michael Mowbray:

I think you've got a shorter answer

Unknown:

that nothing I say is ever short. I say that on the radio What are we

Michael Mowbray:

just like being on cable TV, you know?

Dan Frievalt:

And and not that that isn't a great tip that is and but some people listening might be Oh, I die for a 20 $300 average. So you're thinking bigger, which is good and where you were at that

Unknown:

and that can apply No matter if they're if they're trying to go from you know have people come to me for the like one on one mentoring and they're like, you know, my sales average is only, you know, $600, what do I do so it doesn't matter where your sales averages you have to make sure. Client education is number one for me, you have to educate your client from the very first time they find you, before they even contact you. If they find you on social media. If you go on my social media right now, if you go on my Instagram, you guys are busy. So don't go on there yet. But if you go on my Instagram and look at my Instagram stories, you'll see now I have client order pickup today. And I have pictures of my clients looking through their albums and my you know, my girl that bought they got an album and four pieces of wall art. And you see her holding her Waller in for all four pieces and looking through her album. So I'm constantly educating my clients on products and the value of products and that kind of thing, even when even the stuff that they'll find before they ever contact me. And then if they go to my website, they're gonna see all the stuff I have on there about products. If they talk to a client, my client is not going to say, Oh, look at these Digital's she's going to say look at this wall art, look at this album, that kind of thing. So no matter how they find me, they know I'm all about, you know, printed products. And then every step of the process is also all about that, Dan, I'm sorry, I'm never short winded, you know that for long enough to know that.

Dan Frievalt:

I was just gonna say if you're doing an online gallery, or digital files, if you switch to in person sales, that will that's one of the keys and like, and there's very few things I guarantee or be like, Hey, this is gonna double your sales overnight. Like that always sounds like oh, blah, blah, blah or fishy or salesy, but it is like that, in person sales, like you said, no one was doing that. And then you you implement a minute you implement something like that, you take away, so many of their excuses not to purchase, and you're there helping them through the process, and the excitement is there. And like you said, a lot of people are like, well, I would kill for a $5,000 average, when you look at their products and what they're offering, it's like they could buy everything in the house and only be at$1,000. Well, how are you ever gonna get a $5,000? You will average and or if you have packages, like you have set packages? Well, most people, human nature is gonna kind of go in the middle, you know. So if you have packages, which I don't recommend, but we won't get into that, if packages work, but maybe, maybe you just add two more packages that are the Whopper items all sudden, you have a $10,000 package. Well guess what? Now people are gonna kind of go a little bit lower in your average is gonna increase just by adding, like, I have products that no one ever buys. But guess what? They look at it and be like, someone must get that. It's this and I shouldn't say no one ever buys because every couple years, somebody buys it. And I bought fall off my chair. I'm like, Whoa, okay, let

Unknown:

me know if I can still. Yeah. Okay. Going off of my, my products many the other day, because I had a client came who came in and was like, Oh my gosh, I love that. And I only sold them maybe once a year. And anyway, I am. I was pulling it up on the website later for something and they're gone. And I was like, Oh, I can't even get it anymore. So anyway, she hadn't ordered it yet. She was in for a consult. But I was like, oh, man, so and that was the big one that I didn't sell very often. But, um, but yeah, I totally agree with you, Dan. So that was a huge change. For me going home, I went home from afterdark. I had a client who knew she could buy the CD for 350 or order online. And I got home and I called her and I said, Hey, Kathy, I want to let you know your images are ready, because that was back when I was still retouching everything before they saw them. And I said your images are ready, I can go ahead and put them on an online gallery, like you know, like we talked about, or if you'd prefer some assistance in ordering, you're welcome to come over. And we can go through them together and I can help you with your order. And she was like, Oh, you would do that. Okay, that sounds great. And I'm like, All right. So she came over. And because I had a cup, I didn't have a lot. I didn't have any clients sample work. But I had pictures of my kids on my wall. So I had a canvas and like a fine art metal mural, which is the thing that I just lost, being able to order and then like a couple mounted prints of my own kids in my living room. She came to my house. I didn't have a studio. I hear that a lot too. You know, like, Oh, well, I don't have a studio and there's so many options besides having a studio but I did it for three years without a studio. But she you know, so we went through I was showing her she was able to see the couple of things that I had of my kids on the walls and sizes and things like that. And her order was 1100 and $50. And this is coming straight out of 350 for every single sale and she spent 1100 and 50 and my first thought was as my daddy would say she's got more money than she's got sense and you know, she must just be rich or something. I was like, but it intrigued me enough to do it again. So I did that with my next two clients who I photographed all of them before I'd left for that conference. And so they all knew their options. And I said the exact same thing to all of them. My next two sales were 1550 and 1850. And I nearly died. I was like, I don't know what's going on. But I like it. And then it just kind of went from there. I mean, it's amazing. But Dan's exactly right, just doing things in person when you're there to guide them. And I think so many people I hear so often like, but I'm not a salesperson, I'm not good at sales. I don't want to be like that greasy used car salesman, sorry, if any used car salesmen are listening. But like people don't want to, you know, they don't want to feel like a hard You know, hard push salesperson. So, but I'm like, we're not salespeople. I'm not a salesperson. I know whenever I say that, nobody believes me. But I'm not I am the expert, I am the guidance. If I'm going to remodel a kitchen, I'm not gonna just go on like diy.com and start ordering random kit cabinets and countertops. I don't know jack about that stuff. I want to sit down with somebody who can say, Oh, you like this, then this is the kind you're like, oh, then you're probably going to want this height, this will fit in your home really well. That's what we're looking for. And that's who we're supposed to be. So we're the expert guiding them through this process. We are not salespeople, I don't look at that guy helping me pick stuff out from my kitchen and think man, he must be making a killing. I'm like, thank you for helping me because I didn't know jack about remodeling kitchens. And I couldn't have done this on my own and you know, made it look as good at the end. So that is what we are two people, we have to remember, for our clients, this is an extra service we're providing this is not just about us trying to like make more money and gouge our clients on every penny they have, which is you know, a lot of people who are starting out their shooting burn, and they hear what kind of, you know, money I bring in for sales. That's what they assume they're like, Oh, my gosh, you're just ripping your clients off. And, and I'm like, No, I am working my butt off to provide an amazing experience for them. And you know, and then I take care of everything for them. And they hug me for it. And they tell me Thank you. And it's the best job ever.

Michael Mowbray:

So so for. So for people who don't have a studio, or they work from home, and they don't really have a space or now in the time of COVID where they don't want people may be coming into their home for an hour or two to do an IPS. What can people do? I know, well, there's plenty out there.

Unknown:

If they if they don't want to, because of COVID you'll have to ask Michael about doing zoom appointments, I am an in person person. I am. I'm not scared of anything. So I just keep going about I mean, I have one person in here at a time or one family in here at a time. I don't sweat that because I'm really low volume. But as far as just not having a space. Again, I worked out in my living room for the first three years once and it actually really took that long before I started building up to where somebody wasn't a friend of a friend where I felt fairly comfortable having them in my home so that you know, after you get outside of your you know, two circles deep or something, you're going to want to be meeting them in a public place don't just invite all kinds of random strangers, but everybody who booked me for that first couple of years was a friend of a friend you know, at most, and so I felt safe doing that. So I did them in my home for the for the first few years. And but when I started getting outside of that circle, I would meet them at a coffee shop, I would meet them in a hotel lobby if you have a friend who has a small business that maybe has some sort of a backroom or a meeting room or room they don't use very often or anything like that barter with them, you know offer to do some promotional photos for them and exchange for letting you know use their space you know to meet with them they don't need you don't need a lot of space for a meeting room. Showing them those products though is super important. So that's why I'm so big on in person because I want them to not just see the products I also want them to be able to feel them feeling the weight of my albums is a huge huge seller. So anytime that they feel the weight of the albums I have this thing that I do when the kids are sitting in there my it's usually like you know a little tiny senior girls and they're like sitting in there and I hold the album because I have like the big album my next album is a 15 by 10 and it's got the custom metal cover on it and I'll just hold it just like three inches above their lap and drop it a little bit of an impact there don't tell people I do that. But you know I'll just do that and I'm like oh careful Lindsay that albums heavier than you are that's all it takes because they go oh wow this is heavy. Oh wow. These pages are thick. It's just enough to make them notice. I never heard them I haven't injured anybody no bruises or anything you know, just a couple inches. But like the impact of the way of that album they know it's not you know, other cheap

Michael Mowbray:

company. You've probably never seen my wedding sample album my head made then it's 16 by 20 Wow. 25 pounds.

Carl Caylor:

It comes with a wheelbarrow Yeah.

Michael Mowbray:

coffee table book. That could be a coffee table. Yeah. Oh,

Unknown:

my gosh.

Michael Mowbray:

There's a Seinfeld reference right there.

Dan Frievalt:

I told you he was wacky,

Carl Caylor:

wacky. So here's one for you. You just talked about, we need to educate the clients and in sales. I'm, we're old. I'm old. I've been in business for a long time. And before I was, I was with other studios that were really old. So in person is all I've ever known. You know, there was no such thing as you know, do an online because there was no online back then. So, I know I'm old

Dan Frievalt:

electricity back then.

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, I mean, we use gunpowder for flash. Yeah. Yeah, they say optional. Yeah. But, uh, so back to those days, even people would come in and say, Well, you know, we want a big eight by 10 for our wall. So it's been around forever. But like you said, until, until we show it educate, they don't know. They just don't know, they don't understand the fact that they purchased a Terry redlin imprint from some, you know, NRA banquet or something. And it's a 40 inch print behind their coach, yet they want an eight by 10 or their kid and they can't understand why, Oh, geez, how come they're not the same? Well, because you're picking the wrong size. But people just don't know it, because they don't do it every day. And that's why the increase in sales is so important. It's not that like you mentioned, and I absolutely agree with you. We're not I mean, some people sell and we kind of are selling to but we don't, we don't have to sell our work sells itself, if we just explained what makes it best for the person in their home. So as long as

Dan Frievalt:

a guy does, and it doesn't matter, I'm gonna back you up with this. And then because there's gonna be a lot of people making excuses like, Well, my backup isn't good enough yet. Well, let me tell you something, like, get get

Unknown:

Dan, when he sells his work. So

Dan Frievalt:

yeah, if they hired you, they're pre qualified, they love you, or you work, it doesn't matter what your work is, they love you, and whatever you show them and they love their kids. So they're gonna buy from you don't think your work isn't good enough? Because they've right they've already invested in you. So don't have that excuse. And then, you know, you just lead them through the process like, like you guys are both saying or if you there's so many great software's out there now, that are essentially a salesperson, because they are showing sizes and showing things on walls and showing clusters and helping put images side by each card. There you go. I was gonna say side by side, or if the woman's caddy corner from Yeah, can you hear the corner? This one and this one and put those side by each? You know? Yeah. And if you get thirsty, I have a bubbler in the in the studio. Oh, yeah. For drink.

Carl Caylor:

We'll never know because of COVID. But we have bottled water because of it. So

Dan Frievalt:

Oh, yeah. The bubbler shut

Carl Caylor:

down the bypass. No. Yeah, yeah. But that's just it. And you know what, the funny thing about that, like you said, the software, then it even add more to that. It's it's almost like a crutch in that the guest is always would say, Well, what can we do this? And this instead of this? Let me see. Well, no, because see right here, according to this my price menu, because like I said, we're educated based on what we want people to do. Well, seeing the menu here, it says we can only do this. So guide your guests, where you want to go with rules or with the software, the software says QuickBooks says we can't do this, it has to be ordered in pairs or whatever, I don't know. But come up with you know, find the rules and stick by the rules and use the rules as part of your push towards where you want people to go.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, and I think that is another downfall that a lot of creatives run into is you build this relationship you feel like friends, and then you let people take advantage of you. And I've done it, you know, I'm like, okay, and you know, or, you know, if you have packages and I'm gonna jump on that bandwagon. It's like I was substituting things all the time. Yeah, so it's like then awesome. They left them like oh man, because I didn't know my didn't know that information. Or if I substitute this or that and realize later Well, I just lost money. Yeah, so doing like a creative collection or things. I know what what everything costs, and this is why it goes together. And here's your options and I can't substitute because it's just, it's just not fair. Or if you want something different. I have this option. It's going to cost you more so then prices, letting them decide, okay, I'm going this route, you're not forcing them into that route. They're making that decision on their own. So

Carl Caylor:

don't write. You'll love you play guitar and stuff. I know you like guitars and a lot of people out there are on the guitar bandwagon because guitar sales are up. Absolutely astronomical. Right now, I've been hearing in all different all the different brands, but I was looking at, over the years I love, I can't play with the crap, I love listening to guitars. But I love a good craftsman. The craftsmanship of a good guitar, I just like the artistic value of the product itself. And so I was looking at like Martin guitars and tailor made and all that retailer. And if you look at those, the craftsmanship that goes into those, and there's some that are like, way above our pay grade, you know, 1012 $14,000 for a guitar, and then there's some that are still really nice, and they're about 40 $200. And then you can go to the guitar sales center or Supercenter and get a tailor for or a Martin for 250 bucks. It's not the same craftsmanship at all. But they have those values. And I guarantee you they saw more of the 4200 than anything else. Because they're getting the people that still want craftsmanship still want the art of it and the quality level of tailor. They can't afford the 12 or $20,000 version. And they don't want the $200 version. And that's the client same kind of clientele that we're looking for. I mean, we're looking for guests that can afford discretionary a luxury item, like what we provide. And if you price it at, you know too low, then they're not going to want you anyhow.

Michael Mowbray:

Does anybody have to have senior portraits?

Carl Caylor:

No, not anymore?

Dan Frievalt:

No, no. And I'm gonna back up what you said, Carl, and something that Jen said earlier about price. And, you know, there's always going to be someone less expensive, yes, and don't get on social media and look at that stuff and get worked up. Number two is there's always going to be someone doesn't matter if you charge $1 or $100, it's going to say that, that you're too expensive. So again, you can't get they just don't value it. They could have you know, it's funny when I like talk to mentors, or someone from other industries are like, Oh, you should be here because there's all you know, there's doctors and there's these, these medium income is 500,000, blah, blah, blah, what they don't understand is in our industry, it's not about how much money you make is what value you put on that luxury item. I we all had that experience someone pulls in they have extremely expensive car, they well to do nice clothes, everything is my lowest sale ever, you know, someone else rolls in and, and it's like they're gonna save that rescue pickup, they're saving, they're paying, they're pulling cash out, they're doing whatever they can, because family is important to them. And that's what we provide. It's not about the imagery, really. I mean, it does make our images is do you make it? But it's the experience, like Jen was saying to that really is what we're selling. They know what we provide, how we make them feel. like Michael said, Do you really need sr? Does anyone need senior pictures? Yeah, I don't know.

Michael Mowbray:

So, Bob, time to wrap it up. Do you have any parting shots? JOHN, any thoughts you want to leave people with but keep it under 15 minutes?

Unknown:

That's really challenging, Michael. I don't know. Um, yeah, I think, you know, I think the biggest thing is, make the change, it doesn't matter exactly how you're doing it, it doesn't matter if you don't feel ready. But whether it's changing from shooting burned in person sales, or you know, or raising your prices, or you know, looking for a mentor can help you. They're worth their weight in gold. And you know, it's I think, you know, just jumping and I've always been a jumper I've never been I don't I mean, I second guessed things, but it's after I've already done it. So I've never, I don't hesitate. I don't think about it a whole lot before I do it. I'm like, you know, Hey, you know what this is working for? You know, Dan Frievalt like he jokes a lot about I did like he and I talked sales for so long. And then you know, I was doing something kind of similar to him there for a while and then I was like, This isn't working. This is crap. I'm gonna change it. The truth is it works for a lot of people. It works for Dan, it works for a lot of people. But then, you know, I have a different system that I'm super comfortable with. And we still talk and Dan learned stuff for me sometimes do. But it's you know, he looked he looked really

Carl Caylor:

he does he did we do we all learn. Well,

Michael Mowbray:

that's all for this week. Give me

Dan Frievalt:

your red hen and the grammar I learned a lot from you for

Unknown:

all of your spelling, spelling

Dan Frievalt:

in the best. Wait real quick. The best is Karl ad sync when he had the the Bible passage is a typo. He goes,

Unknown:

I copied and pasted that I swear

Michael Mowbray:

Bible passage.

Unknown:

Oh,

Carl Caylor:

that's the ultimate right there, folks.

Michael Mowbray:

So, every week we have a sponsor and this week, we're sponsored by buffalo snot beer from Mount Rushmore brewing. The perfect blend of hops malt in subtle esters on the nose. Light bodied, crisp, clean and refreshing with a very balanced finish. A common or lager like blonde Ale, designed for balance in all respects. Not too sweet. Not too bitter. Not too hoppy. Not too multi. This beer will have you saying to Tonka after three or four more. Buffalo stop beer from Mount Rushmore Brewing Company. All right. That's all for this week, guys, till next time, cheers to you.

Dan Frievalt:

Cheers. Cheers.

Unknown:

Cheers. Cheers. Cheers. That's a wrap last call.

Michael Mowbray:

You've been listening to the photo happy hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to not miss a single action packed episode. And join our photo happy hour Facebook group where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You can find my MoLight gear online@www.molight.com that's Gio. Mo Li gh t calm. You can find the Facebook page under MoLight store and I also run the Godox flash help group on Facebook. You can find Dan SR unlocked website at www dot seniors unlocked.com that seniors with an S at the end unlocked.com and the Facebook group under seniors unlocked and you can find Carl's coaching corner@www.cc photo coach comm cc photo coach.com Till next time, cheers to you.

Unknown:

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want me to pay you to subscribe, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you subscribe now, that won't be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will annoy you