Photo Happy Hour

The Power of Community and Connections

October 27, 2020 Michael Mowbray, Carl Caylor, Dan Frievalt Season 1 Episode 25
Photo Happy Hour
The Power of Community and Connections
Show Notes Transcript

To paraphrase the great philosopher PeeWee Herman, as solo photographers we are loners, Dottie. Rebels. Because most of us work on our own, it's even more important that we reach out to connect with other weird folks like us. That's where the power of the photography community can help. There are many opportunities to connect and share with like-minded folks, and learn from what others have done to grow and improve. This week we chat about this and how you really can't learn everything from YouTube. Of course we get sidetracked along the way -- Dan and Carl tell some killer Dad jokes. And we drop pop culture references like Game of Thrones, Shotskis, Seinfeld, BatDad, and John Denver.

Informative and entertaining, grab your favorite beverage and press "play".  And don't forget to subscribe!

Here's your link to see what a Shotski is.

Your Hosts:
Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com

Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com

Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner.  Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net

MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.

Michael Mowbray:

Recorded live from the parking lot of Walley world. Sorry, folks, Parks closed the moose off function. It's the photo happy hour podcast. Hey, and welcome everybody come on in and grab a seat at the bar. I'm your photo happy hour. bartender Michael Mowbray and I'm serving up some pumpkin spice liqueur with a cinnamon swirl stick. Ooh, I'm so Anya. Joining me behind the bar are Dan Frievalt. And Carl Caylor. Say guys.

Carl Caylor:

Hey, guys,

Dan Frievalt:

I'm exhausted.

Carl Caylor:

I chose especially on the eyes. Gotta keep them open and open.

Unknown:

Yeah, it's October. Oh.

Carl Caylor:

Oktoberfest a

Dan Frievalt:

Wait, wait, what? How did it become October? Alright.

Carl Caylor:

is just March a little bit ago?

Dan Frievalt:

We were just locked in the basement like two days ago. Where is that

Michael Mowbray:

COVID thing over yet? No,

Carl Caylor:

no, no. It wasn't a COVID thing. It was all a dream. It was just like, what was it dynasty or Dallas or whatever it was that guy like die, but but he came back next season because it was all a dream.

Dan Frievalt:

This is remember that he was there. He was in a coma?

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, or something like that. The whole thing was, we're just dreaming this whole darn thing. Nothing is really wrong out there. So tomorrow morning, we're gonna get up and we're gonna go back to work like normal and none of this crap ever happened. I liked that ideal squat that

Michael Mowbray:

I've been kind of hoping because this is like the one year anniversary of the ending of Game of Thrones that they're going to actually launch the real final episode and just announced that the other one was, was hold on a dream.

Dan Frievalt:

Oh, yeah. Not tease me Don't

Unknown:

hold on.

Michael Mowbray:

About a year since you've heard that one. Right? It is. Anyway, so in case you're joining us for the first time, bless you. The premise of this podcast is we are three professional photographers who have been around for a while. And we'd like to get together and have a I don't know, a drink or seven. And when we drink, we start to talk about photography. And the more we drink we The more we know or think we do. And this week we're talking about what the hell's decided we're talking about community the importance of community in photography doubles. What do we mean? What do we mean? community in beyond doing socials,

Dan Frievalt:

which is having a good group of friends that you can do a shot ski with? Have we mentioned a Schottky on this? Yes, yeah, I think

Michael Mowbray:

we need to explain what a shot ski is.

Carl Caylor:

I got to post it on our Facebook. Mostly photo.

Dan Frievalt:

Schottky Is it a Wisconsin thing? Oh, sure. Well, no,

Michael Mowbray:

we'll just claim it

Dan Frievalt:

will claim. I mean, it has to do with drinking. It has to originate in Wisconsin.

Michael Mowbray:

It's got a ski at the end. So I figured it's got to be something

Dan Frievalt:

here too. Yeah. So you take it either. It's either a water ski or snow ski and you have shot glasses glued to it, you know, anywhere from three to five. I guess we have to make a new one for social distancing, you know, yeah.

Michael Mowbray:

Cross Country skis.

Carl Caylor:

We'll use we'll use some of those ski jump skis. They're long

Dan Frievalt:

jokes. That's it. I was Yeah. Two by 10s. So you have a couple of shot glasses glued on your board full of shots and everyone gets together and 123 tip the sea shot ski up and you're down the shot and there you have yourself a shot ski. There you go.

Michael Mowbray:

Everybody's just gonna rush out to Amazon. It is Amazon Prime Day while it's recording this so everybody's gonna go out to Amazon now and see if they can buy a shot ski. Like you look at thinking about looking it up and see if you look at it.

Dan Frievalt:

I'll give you an affiliate link to my shot ski on Amazon. I wonder if

Michael Mowbray:

you guys keep talking. I'm gonna look it up.

Carl Caylor:

Just do the Google shot ski see if it actually shows up.

Dan Frievalt:

Go to my Pinterest page. We'll show you how to make your very own miljoen CHATZKY with three easy steps.

Michael Mowbray:

Amazon as I started typing in shot ski and it comes up shots keyboard with glasses. I'll be darned. Let me see. I guess Guess what, what guess what the first thing that comes up is I'm going to ship it. I'm going to show it to you guys made it was very first the green thing here. Hang on. You see what that is? The leaf blower it's

Carl Caylor:

Oh my gosh. There's so off. You saw

Michael Mowbray:

Oh, there we go. We've got a four person drinking ski and the person and afford a four person Yeah. Wow.

Dan Frievalt:

It's called a drink in ski so like a shot skis. Kind Like a bubbler, you know, it's branded to what's got

Carl Caylor:

waterphone?

Dan Frievalt:

Well, it's branded to Wisconsin. That's true. The leaf

Michael Mowbray:

blower was kitty corner away from the shot ski

Carl Caylor:

caddy corner as

Michael Mowbray:

Jen said, anyway, you have to listen ready.

Carl Caylor:

All the time on this, it's like a everlasting cycle. So anyhow, network is sociable. The reason we talk about socials is because we were discussing, we had a interview with Angela kerugian, over there at in the PPA headquarters. And, and it's amazing how our conversations about this industry and even our involvement in PPA or other groups, and even how we met each other, comes down to how strong networking is in our industry, and how much that we are able to lean on each other in this industry, and how it's sad that some people that aren't part of our groups, or their local groups don't have that opportunity. So we thought, hey, let's make it a show. So let's, let's chat about that.

Dan Frievalt:

So that's the show. Great show everyone. Thanks.

Michael Mowbray:

Good job, guys. I feel real good about this one.

Carl Caylor:

Dan's after this, that's probably just networking.

Michael Mowbray:

So So if you've listened to a few of these, you'll, you'll hear that we talk about different conferences in different organizations and such. And we're all big believers in that kind of networking, that kind of learning environments, you know, hands on learning, which is harder than time of COVID. But, you know, so some of the conferences we talked about are imaging USA, which is one of the biggest, if not the biggest photography conference in the United States. And that's put on by professional photographers of America. And that's once a year, usually in January. And then, you know, we've talked about sync, which is, I'm trying remember what sync stands for senior youth national conference,

Dan Frievalt:

National Conference, and

Michael Mowbray:

yeah, but it's primarily primarily a senior photography conference. But you know, they talk about newborns and families and stuff, too. And that's typically in Florida in February or March. But there are tons of conferences, if you're not aware of this, there are tons of conferences around the country, your state might have one, your region probably has one. There are national ones. And that's where folks like us, we'd like to go hang out and just talk to other people like us. I mean, if nothing else, if we're not, you know, we're not necessarily learning something, we're they're just talking to other people who are like us, and we highly recommend doing that. Because, yeah, sometimes your spouse or your significant significant other your family don't really get what it means to be a photographer. And it's nice to you know, hang out with a group before other people or five or 10 or whatever, that they're all kind of like you they all kind of weird like you, you know. You can say aperture and they know what you're talking about.

Dan Frievalt:

You can be you can be eating lunch in this and you know, awesome like, Oh my God look at the light over there on that person and everyone gets it. It doesn't sound creepy at all.

Michael Mowbray:

You'll be you know, like the hotel restaurant for a conference you say something like that. Obviously you see everybody prairie dog all the heads pop up.

Unknown:

Yeah. Squirrel.

Dan Frievalt:

Except right, whichever. I'll never forget the one time we went It was after dark in Kansas City and a big group of us went out to a famous barbecue place was it's just kind of a hole in the wall dive bar place and we all went we got ribs and brisket and all this stuff, you know, and then went there must have been a good 15 of us. We all get our food. We're all sitting down and everyone is taking pictures like get this picture. Get this picture. Get a picture of us. Oh, well you guys Hurry up. I want to eat my ribs already. salivating here I've been working I've been working all week long for this and it's like only when a group of photographers used to wait a half an hour where everyone gets their pictures in the lighting set just right before now we can knock out food Yeah, it's cold

Michael Mowbray:

well can you guys turn the light on on your phone and just hold her over here? I want to skip over the back of the brisket

Carl Caylor:

done that many times. In fact is there a call Michael? Yeah to do that Nashville before I can have my drink

Unknown:

young

Michael Mowbray:

bottle or whatever it was? No, I had a pretty drink that was that good rocks place place yeah, dog or whatever the whole thing was called. And my drink was pretty so we had a lighter properly.

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, yeah. So I just I just looked at a sink is in March this this coming year to one March 5 to the eighth. Hopefully it's in person. That's the only thing that we really do push. Virtual things are great in between, but it's so so important. For us to be in person at a conferences, you just don't learn as much or don't get to know people as much. Of course, we're different because, you know, the podcast is that we, we all know each other, we're very transparent. That's why the podcast works so well. But, but in general, though, you're so much better off to be able to get to know people more and bounce ideas off each other. And, you know, it's the things that we hear between the comments and between the ideas that I think are as important as the ideas themselves. Yeah. Or we learn the speakers, you know? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Frievalt:

And before I forget, if I can interrupt just a second is, I want to throw out, like, my tip for conferences is to it. Like when you go to a bunch of conferences, next we have, it's easy to get together with the same group of people in a, go to lunch and go to dinner and everything, try and expand that a little bit and go out with a different group. I know, it's like, it's nice to meet up with the friends you've made. But going with different group and getting around different people, you're going to get a little bit different points of view, you know, as well, and also invite people or just invite someone that's new and say, Hey, you want to why don't you come to lunch with us? And they really, it's like, heck, yeah, like, you know, you know, welcome them in. Because, you know, if you go to something and you're brand new, it's very intimidating, because it may seem like there's a bunch of clicks, but it's because all of us We haven't seen each other in so long and we've become good friends because we've gone year after year, so we want to get together and hang out. It doesn't mean we want to exclude anyone. You know if anyone ever asks us well, like heck yeah, jump in with us. Or it's like we're invite people like go out of our way to invite people because I know how that is. It can be intimidating. And we're not intimidating people. Just Yeah, you just might have to buy us drinks

Michael Mowbray:

that's a monster. Yeah,

Carl Caylor:

the shotgun shotgun together

Dan Frievalt:

at the at the end of law. Yeah. The bill who's got the this the new guys got the tab.

Michael Mowbray:

It's like the old Seinfeld thing. It's like you You order all this food you eat all this food in and then you're you're full and then they bring the check and you're like, why am I paying for this? I already ate it all.

Carl Caylor:

It's gone. Through this. It wasn't really here.

Michael Mowbray:

We got the Gator bites. Jen knows that you Jen. Jen.

Unknown:

Jen. Jen, they broke up. Did you

Michael Mowbray:

see that? What total total side tangent here. That dad. You know whose? Dad? They got divorced. Wow. Oh, no, I just I ran across this. Doing some deep research on something really important. Otherwise known as mindless scrolling. I believe late at night going oh my god, we're all gonna die. And I saw that I found out the bad dad and Jen got divorced. And I guess they're staying friendly. But Wow. Well,

Dan Frievalt:

yes. Too bad. Was Robin. It was Robin involved there. They weren't.

Michael Mowbray:

They weren't saying but okay. Okay. We

Carl Caylor:

you guys realize we missed something. This episode already.

Michael Mowbray:

Set. What are we drinking? While you're drinking the same damn thing all the time. So I just quit

Carl Caylor:

drinking beer today. Oh, wedding and whiskey because I figured I would run out of whiskey. Will you make a

Dan Frievalt:

double fist in it?

Carl Caylor:

It's serious. I'm leaning on one arm and just setting the glasses down in between. So we're taking turns. Because you know, why not? Dan? Oh, I see. You have some wine there.

Dan Frievalt:

Zinfandel for me. Yes. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray:

This is the last of the 10 year old euro. scotch just tried for the first time. Wow. The bottle was the first time I've had insurer scotches. I've tried this a few times now.

Carl Caylor:

So did you use real ice or your rock stuff this time?

Michael Mowbray:

No, there's no ice that's straight. It's cool enough. I don't need any ice. Well, it is October 8. Neat. Clean. Yes. But the only thing you may be do sometimes is put a little drop of water or just spin it. There we go. Perfect.

Carl Caylor:

Nobody knows your own because no one else is gonna drink it.

Michael Mowbray:

Yeah, and the peat in the COVID. Anyway,

Carl Caylor:

yeah, back back to this whole social networking thing. It's not social networking, but the networking within our industry. It is it has been amazing how many people we have all met and I know. You know from it's been, gosh, more than a dozen years that I've been on the speaking circuit and it's, I can confidently confidently say that if I'm driving across the country My car breaks down, I could probably call in somebody nearby and crash at their place. And that's, it's a cool comfort to know that in fact, we've done that before.

Dan Frievalt:

Dan, I've done that was I was gonna say was it? Yeah, of course,

Carl Caylor:

we just had to sleep in a bathtub together. But that's a whole different

Dan Frievalt:

way. Yeah, we won't go into detail but there was no hotels.

Michael Mowbray:

jacuzzi in going on there.

Carl Caylor:

Actually, it was it was it was, it's fun. I was driving out to West this, this fall, and had to do it had to go myself by person I was gonna go with wasn't able to. And so at that, well, your job was off. I'm gonna stay with another friend of ours. And I thought, in fact, we'll bring up his name Trish Trey Schrader was, I was gonna stay at Rogers place button, western Iowa. And then I thought, you know, if I do stay there, I'm gonna end up an extra day on my travels, because we're gonna end up talking all night anyhow. And we're doing who knows what round up going and holding a light foam or some damn thing. Now, I better not do this, though. So So sometimes you have to pick and choose where you're going to stay depending on your schedule, because it is it is fun. And it's it's hard. I mean, when we leave these in person conventions. I don't know about you guys, but I get home. And I'm, I'm like, no good for the next two or three days. Because Yeah, I wonder on my studio going, Oh, my gosh, I'm really alone. There's no talk here. And

Dan Frievalt:

we also care. And we may have mentioned this, like podcast one or two, but can we can we talk about the realization that during quarantine, all of us will be like, yeah, this is pretty typical. You can normal stuff. Yeah, this is this is kind of normal, especially in our neck of the woods where like, you know, March April, May it's you know, if you're not traveling on the speaking circuit, which is speaking circuit, generally two is January, February, March. You know, there's Texas School a little things in April, but that kind of subsides so you're kind of like, yeah, on your own. So yeah, when you get home from these conventions, one after another, and you kind of look around like, Huh, that I kind of have a one or two day high yet. And then I like, Oh, I like it drops off big time. I'm exhausted. And I'm kind of like, Oh, I miss everyone, you know, that kind of thing. So. So yeah, we've been conditioned for for quarantine. We've been training. Training.

Carl Caylor:

That was the problem with this quarantine this for us, though. I mean, for myself, is that it? Like you said we're always alone that time of year and but going to the conventions and seeing everybody was like, Oh, thank goodness, somebody. And this year, we had none of it. Right? I mean, after sync, everything got canceled. And it was all my my social age socialization with just humanity has been gone for, what? Seven months? You know,

Dan Frievalt:

yeah, on top of it, like, the fact that you can't do anything, that kind of psychological thing instead of like, Oh, I can just jump in and go here. What if we did this? You know, it's like, nope, we can't do anything. So. So yeah, that, you know, and, and the other thing with our industry, which I think is pretty amazing compared to any other industry is, and this is can be good and can be bad is that there's so much that people are willing to share, you know, like there's other industries, where it's like, I'm not giving you you know, all these Yeah, secrets. And this is that, like, there's so many people that have big hearts and want to share and, you know, you reach out to them or at convention, you talk to them, they're they're open. You know, it used to be kind of even back in the day, a little bit more like a speaker was on stage and you were kind of intimidated, to talk to them after dark kind of broke those rules where, hey, we're hanging out with you, we're mentors, we're, you know, we're going to talk we're going to go through things, we're going to work it out, we're gonna shoot two or three in the morning, let's go here. Let's go here. Let's go there, you know. And that kind of is something that this industry is it's pretty cool to be a part of.

Michael Mowbray:

It wasn't always like that. Because when I was first breaking into this, I had a hell of a time finding information because it was pre YouTube is pre creative live. And, you know, unless you talk to the right people, their old timers were kind of tight with their info. So you know, I was a newbie, I was trying to where do you place stuff that questions we get now and they were like, we've kind of roll her eyes that a little bit because like where do you place the light? And it's like, Well, okay, but you know, but when you're starting off you don't know yet. You don't know, 30 degrees 30 degrees from what? What's 30 degrees? I mean, it's like so today, you know, all those kinds of things, how far away should it be? You don't understand the relationship between distance and perceived softness and shadow transition and things like that. You know, and, and inverse square law

Dan Frievalt:

drink everybody Wait, right. Yeah, I was gonna say, you were hovering the line of mass. And I was like, I'm using

Carl Caylor:

both hands on that one.

Dan Frievalt:

Please, double fist and Yeah, well, you bring up a good point, because I went through that to like, you'd ask questions, and people kind of give you like, the cold shoulder. Who are you? And it's not. So I told myself, you know, if I ever get to a level where I'm speaking and teaching, I'm gonna stay up, I'm going to answer everyone's question. And you know, because I, I remember that feeling. It wasn't a good feeling.

Michael Mowbray:

No, you feel lost, because you there's no place to get the answer. I mean, I started to buy books. You buy the books, and it's like, I bought this book. And I read the book. And it didn't tell me the one thing I really needed to note down. No, I gotta buy another book. So

Carl Caylor:

I got all these books think Dart and Dart and Drake really help break the ice on that. I mean, we've talked about Dart before, and people really know him. But I was extremely lucky. I got to know him and Scotty dubara at the same time, because we were on print crew together during print competition back in Wisconsin. And I remember when darton and Scotty and fuzzy dunkel really started getting big, and really started doing programs, in a lot of places in becoming very, very well known. Dart and actually set both of them are all of us though. And really, and I was helping helping carry this stuff around. I was a roadie more or less and happy to do it. But Darren, just straight up said, when we all do this, we don't hold anything back. I mean, I want to, I want to make sure that that this is that this is a group of people that shares everything from from way inside to, you know, emotional things, to physical things to technical things. You don't hold anything back, because we're just like you, we were just both saying, people shouldn't have to get part of the message or read a book and then get a hint towards the next book, that might be the answer to the next hint. He's he really wanted to make sure. And then there's a lot of people at that time, Dean Collins is another one that even before darton, that good Gosh, I mean, this wealth of information, and not afraid to hold back. It's those people that to me are the heroes in the world that they could have kept the quiet and kept it to themselves, and then their own success. But it elevated, so much more for the industry and so much for for all of us, then just what they would have gained as an individual conquest. And that's, again, that's the most thing most I've learned about the industry is to continue to give back and to continue to give everything I possibly can. Because of those guys, it's not just the knowledge, or the skill sets that we're trying to get across. It's the idea that we want this industry to grow, period, we want it to be more professional, raise the bar, raise the sea,

Michael Mowbray:

raise the sea and float everybody's boat.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, raise the shot ski, so we can all get drunk together. mean, I mean, a rising tide raises all ships, something like that. I just, I just,

Michael Mowbray:

I just need something to float my boat. That's all I know.

Carl Caylor:

Hey, you just gave me a new, a new a new idea for a podcast theme is analogies.

Unknown:

analogies, or is that what we do?

Dan Frievalt:

Well, and can we talk about the flip side of information? Now you talked about back in the day, you know, Michael, that there's less information and it's harder now with Facebook and the internet and virtual learning and zoom and all these things. I, you know, just maybe be aware of where you're getting your education from? Because, you know, like, Michael, you talked about where you place the light, you throw that post up on our Facebook group, and you're gonna get all kinds of answers or all kinds of different things. So, you know, like I mentioned before, there's good and bad with network information, right.

Carl Caylor:

Choose wisely. I mean, that's another thing we've talked about before. I don't know. I don't know if we talked about him on the podcast before but we've discussed it before. That there's a lot out on social media right now. And many different groups, people posting that. Maybe shouldn't be posting as education, because a lot of what they're showing is really not good. Mm hmm. And people are eating it up by the spoonful sometimes. And so No, no, it doesn't know what they don't know until they know it. Right. However, check, check the math. I know we need to drink again, as we talk about math, but, you know, look at people that are successful, and that are successful time and time again. And those are the people to learn from those are the people to maybe think these are the people that I should be listening to advice and learning from, because they're the ones that are, are successful. Time and time again. And I know you guys repeat it, you can repeat it exactly. The guys will recognize this name. Remember Kari Evanson? Mm hmm. Okay, carries another extremely talented photographer. And in Wisconsin, Donna Green Bay Area, won competitions over and over and over again. And I know one time she and Darren and Scotty and fuzzy and we Larson, and Bob bricco. We're all sitting at a table at the bar afterwards, again, socialize us networking, so to speak. And somebody came to the table and made the comment that, you know, how do you do so well in competition each year, and it's, it must be must be nice to be that lucky. And I think it was Darden that kind of practice head over and said, Yeah, but isn't it funny that it's the same people, they get lucky every single year,

Michael Mowbray:

right? It's not all luck all the time, there comes a point in time when we can all open our eyes and see the people that really have talent. And those are the people that you should break barriers down and not be intimidated by them, and start asking them questions and listening to their answer. And then those are the people that watch on social media to get ideas and thoughts from not just the general public, because they're posting on Facebook. My mantra has always been because first thing people say is like, Well, you know, just go look on YouTube. It's like, well, there's good stuff on YouTube, there's a lot of crap on YouTube. So what are you going to look at? And I always say, look at the work. So you're going to go look at some videos from somebody who's going to show you lighting, great, there's some good stuff, there's some bad stuff. If that person gives their website, on their channel, go to their website, take a look at their work, is the work consistent? Is it really good is it also the kind of stuff that you would like to do? Okay, if all those things marry together, then maybe go watch some of the videos, but do a little bit of the due diligence and do a little bit of the research, don't just go watch 20 videos on off camera flash, because first of all, you're going to get 20 different points of view. And out of those 20, I'm going to guarantee you at least 12 of them are pretty much dead wrong from either a technical or creative standpoint. So then you're down to eight, now you're going to be lucky to follow, you know, which are those that you, you know, that are correct, or are going to be doing good work, and that you can replicate and incorporate into your work. So, you know, do a little due diligence, take a look at what work that photographer or those photographers are doing. And then ask yourself, Is that something you want to do? And then maybe take the next step? Because even then, doesn't mean they're good at teaching it either. It's true, right? So

Dan Frievalt:

or on top of that I'll add another layer to that is are they making some sort of kickback from promoting a particular item on YouTube, because they're getting the viewership from YouTube. It's, it's a glorified affiliate link or something that they're getting a kickback from. So they're like, Oh, you need this light, and you need this, and you need to do that, and blah, blah, blah. And then here's my affiliate link, you know, and I have affiliate links and some things I do get a referral from some a lot of affiliate links. Now, it doesn't matter who you are. Everyone has an affiliate link, because they want to spread it as much as possible. It's not your, your following, you know, so just be aware of that, you know, as well.

Michael Mowbray:

Absolutely. Good point.

Carl Caylor:

So another part of networking in the idea that it's nice to get to know people is when you do need help. Not just like advice, but actual help. There's people that have your back. I mean, I've I've photographed weddings, a couple of weddings now. We've done proms for people that have been sick or danza wine, oh yeah. On

Dan Frievalt:

this episode too much, too much pre podcast chatter.

Carl Caylor:

I told you we should hit record right away. But but really though we have, not only do we have each other's back in this industry, you know, if something goes wrong, there's somebody that can a lot of times fill in for you and help you out and keep your income coming in. And beyond that, and we already talked about PPA and being a part of that association. They also have insurance plans and indemnification. So in case things go wrong, that you have a lot of staff at your, at your back as well. So there's a lot of really important networking situations with within these groups, and especially in the professional photographers of America. So something to keep in mind too, as you make your choices as to what to belong to, or what to maybe pay dues for sometimes.

Michael Mowbray:

Well, and maybe I mean, you kind of have a laundry list of a little bit here, but let's drill down, because we're all PPA members. And we all hold PPA degrees. So we could talk about that. And we all participate in print competition. And I'm you How long have you guys been members? I've been a member since 2005. I think? thousand four? 2005?

Dan Frievalt:

I have no idea. 2008.

Carl Caylor:

Okay, I'm

Michael Mowbray:

1073.

Carl Caylor:

I think my membership for myself is from 1995. And I was a member through another studio. Before that, I think in 1992. Carlos first it print competition images that are 10 times

Dan Frievalt:

your last plate.

Unknown:

Yeah, well, you

Michael Mowbray:

did on that. Yeah.

Dan Frievalt:

And this is kind of slightly off tangent, but use print competition us just entering us, hey, I went to this convention and furthering my education as marketing tools. You don't have to win an award, you know, you. It's like, hey, break and do on social media. And I hate to say break. But I remember I was grown, or we were taught in our family, not to break kind of be humble and stuff like that. But in business, you have to learn to somehow break. There's no other way to say it. But it's marketing. It's like, Hey, I'm at this convention, I'm learning new things, I'm furthering my education. So your competition maybe isn't doing that. So that is something that can kind of make you stand out, especially when competition or I'm sorry, when conventions are when maybe you're not shooting as much. So maybe your social media is a little lacking. So it's like, Hey, you know, and get pictures with people and show that I'm doing this and show that I'm learning and furthering my education or bring this back. And if you do win an award great even more that you can, you can post and justify your pricing is where that comes down to as well, which we can get in a whole nother tangent, but there's so many different levels, to community and to these groups, I guess is what I'm getting at more than just Hey, we get to get together and have drinks and have lunch in. But we

Unknown:

have to.

Michael Mowbray:

Yeah, that's very important. I learned that PR lesson A long time ago, because well, first of all, if you're not going to do your own harm, nobody's going to you know, do it for you.

Unknown:

But anyway, stop blowing my horn.

Michael Mowbray:

But um, I think my first print competition, I got a I got a couple of red ribbons, and I think I got a brown one. And just in case you don't know, you'll want the blue ones and the purple ones. So but I got a couple red ribbons and one of those awards of excellence seven there, Carl, I know they call. I probably have a purple ones, the yellow, the red ones.

Carl Caylor:

The red ones. Remember what they're called.

Michael Mowbray:

I think it's Award of Excellence is what's going on in Wisconsin. And so I sent a press release out that I won a local photographer win several awards of excellence from the Wisconsin professional photographers Association. They ran the story

Carl Caylor:

ads. So funny you mentioned that because remember there was another thing that Scotty I talked about Scotty duper a lot on this because he is one of my original mentors but he talked us into several of us in Wisconsin to go with him to study with Jay stock several many years ago. Jay stock if you don't know the name, Google it, and then do some research. He is absolutely incredible. photographer was a wonderful educator He passed away this last year, unfortunately. But I had the opportunity to go in and spend some time with him at a four week with specialized hand chosen groups, which was a lot of fun. But there was a time when he usually he didn't compete and for years and years and years, but when he did, he just would rake it in. So he'd go to the state and just, you know, clean up and but he didn't really say anything, he got back and it was what it was, he never wrote to the paper, this is before social media. But his his neighboring studio in the same town that he was in, who got entered the imaging, like he said, got brown ribbon or whatever, it was like the, you know, this is your participation ribbon. And but they mentioned it, they sent a thing to the paper. And it was all about this guy that actually did the article and or sent the in the article that he got this participant he was at Ohio State photography convention, he participated in and got these all these award winning images and Jays, like, I want every category. But, but nobody knew because he didn't toot his own horn, you know, he didn't, he didn't market it. And so it was a good lesson. I mean, it's probably one of the better lessons and I mean, I learned a lot of photography from him. But that was probably one of the best lessons I learned at, you know, while studying with Jay is to sometimes you need to really get away from the humbleness and that's really hard for me. I know you guys are in the same boat too. And I think I've been thinking about that more and more lately. In that. You know, Dan, you always say hire somebody to do the things that you don't want to do or not good at? You should actually just hire a I know it sounds really stupid or bad but hire a publicist.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, this is PR person. Yeah,

Carl Caylor:

yeah. Cuz I just I really, it's not me. But but but it's, it's a necessary evil, you know, because we're not just creatives, we're a business, to make money and to get more people through the door. And using our networking and our status within the industry is probably a good way to keep that moving. So Sure.

Michael Mowbray:

So just to kind of sum that up, if you're, you know, sitting at home, and you work by yourself, we're basically giving you permission to you know, be there tooting your own horn anyway as

Carl Caylor:

you can, right now to listen to this on your radio, while driving, stay between the lines, don't hit any deer. And listen to what we say. If you toot your own horn too much. Will you go deaf?

Dan Frievalt:

to your heart in the woods? Anyone

Unknown:

here? Okay,

Michael Mowbray:

okay. Culture, man, his own horn in the woods. Is he still wrong? anyway?

Carl Caylor:

Yes, I saw I saw that mean, actually, there's a sign about that. So the sign Well, it's at my sister in law's place. So maybe it's not completely true. But

Michael Mowbray:

so we talk, we talk about organizations, because, you know, that's what's really helped us. And conferences, it's really helped us. But there seems to be and we know this from all the conferences we go to and get contacted by to go speak, that there's fewer and fewer attendees. Yet, there are more and more photographers now than at any other time in history. What up with that? Why aren't people join him? And what can what can we do other than the kind of some of the stuff we're talking about here in this podcast? What? What can we do and work and other people's people's look at other people's dues? To thank Michael, I know, dude, he gets to get more participation in local, state, regional whatever. Because I think a lot of people do rely just on social media and their Facebook groups. And that's only going to get you so far.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, you know, I think it's between social media, YouTube, you know, online learning, and people. There's more photographers, but I don't know if there's as many full time photographers as back in the day, there was a lot more full time photographers and big studios. Now I feel like there's a lot of people doing it part time and have a full time job for the benefits and things like that. So it's a little bit harder to break away and do in person conventions and things like that. So sadly, a lot of like you said the the local and stuff are kind of dwindling, because there's just not enough interest in that, you know, or, you know, part of it is kind of looked down on as you said, we've been around a while, but sometimes that's a detriment to us. It's like Oh, the old fuddy duddy guys, you know you want to the hip cool, sexy imagery and all that stuff. And that that is cool as well. So it's just not as cool, I guess. Uh, hang with us old fuddy duddy. Guys.

Michael Mowbray:

Let me the way I'm looking at your face as you say that you visibly aged.

Carl Caylor:

Well, he was tired.

Dan Frievalt:

Tired after that, yeah, well remember, for so many, so many years as like Dan's young guy, he's, we gotta you know, we got to lean in again. This young guy like I'm not young. I'm older. What do you think I am?

Michael Mowbray:

You said that to me. Once after a board meeting at the state of Wisconsin. It's like, Can you keep calling me the young guy is like, Damn, looking around the room. In this room, the young

Dan Frievalt:

so there so so there's a thing. Surround yourself with people that are older than you and you're gonna feel a lot hipper, younger.

Carl Caylor:

Oh, remember Billy, she always said if you want to look good, stand next to somebody that's not good looking. So she, Emily's another one of my mentors.

Michael Mowbray:

Just went a long time with her. Did she stand near you a lot?

Carl Caylor:

Yeah, she does. Um, no, she, she sent us a Christmas card every year. And the last year, she said, I'm getting so old and so many wrinkles that to make myself look good. She She and her studio partner sent a card of toasting with martini glasses. And right behind him is the back end of an elephant. So in the caption, it says something like, No, we are equals don't look that bad at all compared to what's behind us or something like that. It's like that south end of a northbound elephant. But yeah, she's quite individual. You know, what do I think that? You know, there is less people out there? because like you said, there are our letters, more photographers. Absolutely. And but there are definitely less full time. And in there is I know, I mean, all my week long classes, whether it's Texas School, or west coast, or whatever workshop or school that I'm teaching that most of the people in that class are part timers, they're people that decided or retirees that want something different, or they're picking up a camera, which is wonderful, that's great. But each and every one without exception, wants to learn more about this craft. And I follow them after class is out. Even I have Facebook groups for our specific classes. And I still get the same questions all the time. And I can see that people just aren't listening to or just aren't hearing exactly everything I say. And it's not the technical things that they're missing, or the things that I taught them in class, the thing that I told them that they're not listening to, is to get involved with local organization, because if they just did that, their education would continue. tenfold year round. So I mean, it just, they're like, well, I just don't get this yet. I don't get the set. I know you don't get this because it takes time. But the time is shaving off. So exponentially. I said that with with after drinking too. By the way, I was very impressed with myself for that exponentially twice. I said it. That is a lot of syllables. If you get together with people in person, every month, it is amazing how much quicker you get all this stuff. It's amazing how much more the light bulb goes on. It's amazing how much better your work gets faster. Online just doesn't do it. I mean, it's a great avenue for a lot of things and get ideas into to get some things but you just can't get everything in photography. Virtually it just is not possible. You have to be hands on and watching people it's like going, I just got back from the mountains in Colorado. And you know, I didn't want to drag my camera with me. I mean, I was there to go fishing and enjoy the hikes with my aunt and uncle and my wife and I don't want to I didn't want to bring a camera but I brought my iPhone. And I took pictures of things that for the for the family, you know, things that show where we were and what we were doing and what we're catching and stuff like that. And it still didn't do it justice. Even as I was taking pictures of my iPhone, I was thinking myself even if I had my good equipment, you just can't all 100% of the time capture the amazement of the Colorado, Colorado Rocky Mountains. It just doesn't happen. And virtual learning of photography compared to in person is so similar to that you Just can't get it all you just it just, there's nothing you can do to capture what you really get when you're in person with everybody and bumping elbows with some of the best people in the world, in your industry that some of its going to rub off. So I there's no way of just forcing people but by Gosh, do yourself a favor if you want to continue to learn and learn faster in this industry. Go get involved with a local group or a state group or a national group and be there in person and get involved with it and put something into it so that you get more back. That's straight up.

Michael Mowbray:

No bullshit on Michael Mowbray and I support this message.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, Jeff, Jeff to Mike if it means wearing a hazmat suit so you can bump elbows and rub up against Hey, you're still gonna learn more.

Michael Mowbray:

So parting shots from any of you guys? He does a pretty good wrap up right there.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, I think I think Carl did the My job is that

Carl Caylor:

I was on a ranch.

Dan Frievalt:

Double fist in Colorado, Mike. I heard john Denver in the background when he was talking. Colorado, Colorado, Rocky Mountain.

Carl Caylor:

I was thinking about that as we were walking a grass gasping for air at 12,000 feet and going I don't know how the fish breathe up here because I can't breathe but Jesus Christ but Yeah, we did.

Dan Frievalt:

By the way. Hey, you know where fish go when it's raining? were under the bridge. So

Unknown:

there you go.

Michael Mowbray:

That's funny, because it's true.

Dan Frievalt:

What is the fish say when you ran into this event wall? dam.

Michael Mowbray:

So these dad jokes in honor of Dan rose birthday.

Dan Frievalt:

Yes, it is his birthday today is Deborah's

Carl Caylor:

birthday. So where does Napoleon keep his armies? Yeah,

Unknown:

it is. Oh,

Michael Mowbray:

that's actually a little dad jokes. That's my I told my daughter that when she was in high school, died.

Carl Caylor:

Okay, you guys, you'll get a kick out of this. Speaking of groups, and being part of things, my wife. I don't know how she arranged this. But she is now in a group on social media of stupid dad jokes. I don't know how she got into it. People let her in. But she's on corny dad jokes, and coming up with all these doozies. But the other one the one that she did the other day and my brothers. My brother is a commercial diver was a commercial diver back in the day. So this was for him. So I said, you know, why do scuba divers always fall backwards out of a boat?

Unknown:

No,

Carl Caylor:

because if they fell forward, they'd still be in the boat.

Unknown:

It's

Michael Mowbray:

that's pretty bad. is I'm just wondering Okay. What did Teresa search for on Facebook groups that she found is a stupid dad jokes because I'm thinking getting started with stupid dad.

Carl Caylor:

No, that would be my daughter. Because you know as a dad if you have a daughter you're gonna go from stupid to I love you too. I stupid. You're the meanest person in the world too. I love you. You're so cool. All within like I don't two minutes. No, I every single day and I and maybe I'm the only one like that. But

Michael Mowbray:

we had that. That was seventh grade. And then went on so then she's been great ever since. So I want I wanted to you know, sell her off when she was selling. But after that's been great. So and her birthday this week. Happy birthday, Brianna. So Oh, happy birthday is halfway to 50 that's why we're just I just got caught here. Yeah. She's like, Wow, thanks. That makes me feel great. Happy birthday, Dan row, just in case you forgot that. It was loud enough. It was I don't know more than halfway to the century. I don't know. Anyway, so every week we have a sponsor, and this week's sponsor is pumpkin dribbling. Pumpkin dribbling beer from Coronado Brewing Company in San Diego. drinks like a warm baked piece of pumpkin bread with soft touches of brown sugar, and smooth vanilla notes followed by autumns favorite flavors. Perfect for fall, or even just falling down. It's pumpkin drum lick from Coronado brewing.

Dan Frievalt:

Yeah, I actually that's probably the best one sounds I think it is. And if there's a wines talking to me, I'm hungry. It's been a long day, but action sounds delicious. Yeah.

Michael Mowbray:

Does I've tried pumpkins or different pumpkin beer before and it was not good. But this one actually sounds good.

Dan Frievalt:

I'm not a fan of pumpkin spice. person but this thing sound like add spice. Oh, so

Carl Caylor:

I hope this isn't seasonal because next year when I'm teaching at West Coast school in San Diego, maybe we can go and take a tour of their place and get some beer. Oh,

Michael Mowbray:

yeah, yeah, right there in San Diego. So look it up.

Carl Caylor:

So Paul right after my favorite school, so why not?

Michael Mowbray:

All right. Well, that's all we got for this week, guys. So Till next time, cheers do

Unknown:

Cheers. Cheers. Last call.

Michael Mowbray:

You've been listening to the photo happy hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to not miss a single action packed episode. And join our photo happy hour Facebook group where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You can find my mo like gear online at www dot gomo life.com. That's geo mo Li gh t.com You can find the Facebook page under MoLight store and I also run the Godox flash help group on Facebook. You can find Dan SR on lock website at www dot seniors unlocked.com that's seniors with an S at the end unlocked.com and the Facebook group under seniors unlocked and you can find Carl's coaching corner@www.cc photo coach comm cc photo coach.com Till next time, cheers to you.

Liam:

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you want me to pay you to subscribe, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you subscribe now, that will be the end of it. I will not look for you. I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you. I will find you and I will annoy you