Photo Assistants...are your fer 'em or agin 'em?

Some photographers always work with an assistant. Others never do. What should you do?  When it comes to assistants, are ye fer 'em or agin 'em?  Dan, Carl and Michael have a few Photo Happy Hour drinks and talk through the upside and downside to working with assistants. Grab your favorite beverage and play along. When we call a "sociable" that means every one drinks! And, maybe learn a valuable thing or two from these experienced professional photographers.

Dan Frievalt, M.Photog., M. Artist, Cr., owns Frievalt Photography in DePere (Green Bay) Wisconsin and also runs Seniors Unlocked. Learn more at
www.frievaltphotography.com
store.seniorsunlocked.com

Carl Caylor, M. Photog., Cr., ASP-Fellow, Kodak Alaris Mentor, owns Photo Images by Carl in Iron Mountain, Michigan and also runs Carl's Coaching Corner.  Learn more at:
www.photoimagesbycarl.net
www.ccphotocoach.com

Michael Mowbray, M. Photog., Cr., owns Beautiful Portraits by Michael in DeForest (Madison) Wisconsin and also owns MoLight. Learn more at:
www.beautifulportraits.com
www.gomolight.com

MoLight offers more than 20 different MoLight -brand softboxes and modifiers.

Transcript

spk_0:   0:06
recorded live in the trunk of a 1972 Cadillac Coupe de Ville. It's the Photo Happy Hour Podcast. Hey everybody. And welcome to the photo Happy hour! I'm one of your hosts, Michael Mowbray, along with Carl Caylor and Dan Frievalt. Say hi, guys. Hi, guys. Hey, what's up, everyone? 

spk_1:   0:29
You sound a little slow there. Dan, It was like urrrrrrr....

spk_2:   0:32
Uh, well, you know, this Zinfandel is kicking in already.

spk_1:   0:37
Ah, the concept here is its photo Happy hour. So emphasis on the happy hour and a little bit on the photo. So the idea is we drink and we talk about photography. And we're three professional photographers who I think know a little bit. But the more we drink, the more we know.  It's amazing how that works.  each week we have a topic and sometimes we go off topic and that's totally okay. The topic this week is assistance. Working with assistants, Pro con reasons. Why? Reasons not. It's

spk_0:   1:17
one of those

spk_1:   1:17
questions. You get a lot from other photographers is like, you know, Do you work with assistant or I I see Assistant shaming. Have

spk_0:   1:24
you guys seen that?

spk_1:   1:26
So I see it all

spk_0:   1:28
the time. Yeah, yeah.

spk_1:   1:30
Where somebody's flashing on. Ah, while my flash blew over in the wind and it broke. What do you work with an assistant or or why didn't you weigh that down with 75 pounds of weight and sand and farm animals? So So that's that's what's that's what the impetus is for this, for this topic is assistants. So are you for are you against

spk_0:   1:58
again, E

spk_2:   2:00
Get in. At first I thought you were saying something else. I'm

spk_0:   2:03
sorry. You know, for her I'm again it again. It I'm a

spk_2:   2:09
100% 4 assistance. And I worked with assistant all the time and I love working with assistance. They really helped keep me on track. They have each year they get more and more duties that they have to perform it for started with like, Hey, just ah, hold this light So it doesn't blow over as you said. And then now they become social media experts. Where there you know, as much as the session itself is about the photography, it's about the experience. So how can we add to the experience by doing behind the scenes instagram stories, Snapchat stories Ah, you know, boomerangs all this stuff to help sell the experience or make the experience more enjoyable for your client. But also, you know, something that is out there on social media that is helping to market and promote your business as well. And I'm also implementing video a lot. And so this year I'm thinking about hiring a second assistant, actually, so we have two assistants. One assistant would be there to hold the light into the social media, and the other assistant is shooting video because it's hard to do all of that and still focus on what I need to do, which is so trying capture imagery and connect with my client and converse with the parent as well. So there's a lot of things going on, so assistant helps in so many ways.

spk_1:   3:34
Well, at that point, you've got to assistance. Then you might as well hire another two, and then the four of them can carry you around on one of those like litters like Thea, old Egyptian pharaohs and way branches that you

spk_2:   3:48
just direct. I'll just be like a director. It's like you're a photographer and assistance I'll just be like, Do this, do that. You know, I'm just there directing. I'm literate, man. That's really

spk_1:   3:59
smart, because video is really becoming more more important. And quite honestly, if you're focusing on the client experience and directing the client and looking at the lighting and creating everything, it's really hard to Oh, let me stop doing doing that. Let me go shoot some video. Oh, let me go do this. Now, when you're a one man band, you can't just strapped a GoPro on your head and call that good

spk_2:   4:22
driving. And I've tried. This is like I believe me. This is like a thrift year where I say I'm doing video for sure this year and I get all excited and I buy a GoPro and I buy different cameras and I but okay, this thing's gonna follow me automatically, you know? And I was like, You know what? I can hire some high school kid or an intern and be like who's who's interested in video and you want to come and follow me around for the day and shoot video and heck, maybe even edited and being something that could go for a college credit. Uh, you know who's interested? I think it could happen.

spk_1:   5:01
I think it's a great idea. Um, I kind of I split the difference. I worked with an assistant almost always when I photographed seniors. And for the same reason I want to be able to stay engaged with the client and be as much in the creative side a cz possible and not worry about carrying gear and everything else. And I want to build a move quickly. So I don't take sandbags and stuff for my light stands because I've got somebody there that's going to hold on to it. Wait a minute.

spk_0:   5:36
Cool. You said quickly. Car. Sorry.

spk_1:   5:44
Oh, you've never seen

spk_0:   5:45
me shoes. And I, uh I know I never thinking it Absolutely e tear my i e I've I've

spk_1:   5:57
seen this thing's win the hair gets the wind going way it gets me here going from Alder Rapid. Yeah, You know

spk_2:   6:05
what I'm saying? I'm sorry. Sorry. Carry on. I six years running really fast, and it was carrying equipment that I could run past either faster

spk_1:   6:17
than I look. It was always saying you know. I want to have an assistant there holding the light stand and actually have mine on. It's almost like a big man. Fraud. Oh. Ah, Stick. That's kind of heavy duty, but doesn't have, like, the stand legs again to make us move quickly. Shut up. And then I can I can say Okay, whoever is my assistant that day, Patrick or Aaron or whoever is like Okay, come three feet. This way, Feather to the right. And then I can get the light exactly where I want it. Without having to move from being where I have envisioned the shot. I've already I've already kind of framed up what I want to look like. If I just need to tweak the light, my assistant can move and adjust the light versus me, going over and having to physically move the light or move the subject to make a word with where the light is all that kind of stuff. And even beyond that because I don't know how you how you guys are, what

spk_0:   7:09
I'm looking

spk_1:   7:09
through. The lens are looking through the viewfinder ice. I lose track of, like, problems with the clothing sometimes or straight hair because I'm focusing on the expression and the light and making sure we're grabbing focus on the eyes and then you know, something with a necklace moved. So I trained my assistance to always watch that stuff and they'll call out Necklace or they'll say, Ah, you know, Rumple on the clothing was like All okay, yeah, let's fix that cause I've lost focus on that. That's just maybe me. But it's nice having that extra pair of eyes to see that

spk_2:   7:43
stuff. Yeah, absolutely. That I kind of went to Not too extreme, but like the other more advanced issues with, uh whether assistant does. But yeah, first and foremost there a second set of eyes that are watching for this thing because there's so many things I'm trying to concentrate on and think of the next pose and worry about lighting and, you know, even talking with the parents so that they don't feel like they need to reach in and do everything that's like, you hire me as professional, we're gonna take care of this. And what I found two. Is that it? That parents I first they're kind of like feel like they need to reach in and do everything. But within a few seconds they see us working and the team and the system and the flow we have. And they're like, Oh, wait, this is awesome. I could just hang back. I don't have to be like, reaching in or taking control, which I don't want them to do, because we all we all know when a mom reaches in the fix, anything on a senior boy or girl, they're like, Don't touch me, you know, But But my assistant can reach in And, you know, again, that's another thing. Us being guys. And, you know, having a female assistant that can adjust hair and everything where we don't have to, you know, go in and touch them at all. Is ah, liability. That is nice toe. Have you know, female perspective or female or nopd female perspective for, um, clothing in stuff is well, but also just to handle some of those more sensitive things. Yeah,

spk_1:   9:10
absolutely. Don't Carl, you know, worked with mood system. We're goingto

spk_0:   9:16
not true. That's not true. I have lots of assistance. I have sticks. I have a lot rockstar lean against. I have assistance. Everywhere I go No, I haven't have I don't have the luxury you guys have with assistance, and it would be great. Um, it would be wonderful, but it's just I'm in an area that doesn't have as much vitamin in, Ah, consistent volume of of work. And it's really hard to I have so many, um, be ready to work with me for four hours on next Thursday, so ah, to take off of work, to do a little bit with me just doesn't It's very difficult. Um, and I guess maybe that's an excuse. Maybe I just need Thio find three or four people that would be willing to work here and there. That would be great. Um, but it's along with the lines that you were just mentioning. You have somebody else there to help or liability. I I do require nobody goes out on location in the, um without having a parent or two parents or friends along with them, um, guys or girls doesn't matter. And if you're a woman photographing and you're like, Oh, it's okay, a woman I'm photographing young lady. No, it's still the u. I don't know about you guys, but, you know, we work really darn hard trying to build a business and build reputation. And all it takes is one person to say something to or not where it gets said the wrong way or taking runway. And you're out of business right now. Um, so, yeah, I work alone, but I make sure that I'm not alone with my seniors or anybody on photograph. And just just to save our protector business for sure. And

spk_1:   11:12
she probably clarify. I think both are very valid ways of doing it. And depends on your work style and how you make it work. You know, for example, I've got an assistant carrying the light. Carl, you've got the light wagon or whatever you call that thing. What is that? They talk about

spk_0:   11:28
it. Oh, I have a light Wigan. It's ah, all trained vehicle. No, it's it's Ah, um I guess what would we call it? It's a farm wagon. More or less. It's got 13 inch cinematic wheels. It's all steel construction on guy shows something with all steel construction. Because we I had a plate of steel made Ah, with ah place to insert. Ah, stand. You know the ah light stand without the base on it, but it created the wagon is its base. I should say so. I just had it milled so that the light stand fit directly into it. Um, and I could just Well, that bugger around. I can put my camera big on it and the light lights on, extra lights on it and just well, wherever I want to go. So if I'm photograph, you know it on the soccer fields or football fields, but the light on it are standing in the light on it modifiers on it. Anything else I want to use? If I'm gonna have multiple sets of lights, they'll go on the wagon along with my camera equipment and often go running. Problem is, you gotta have some What? Reasonable. Ah, flat ground. And, you know, even though I've taken it's, um, pretty rugged places. I still do work a lot in what areas? And on hillsides and rocks and stuff. Um and then, of course, we gotta go without the wagon. But the wagon has been a really good assistant. Ah, the other thing, that because, like I said, I had a lot of you. Good folks are gonna be like me. I just We just don't have the volume to get an assistant in there all the time. You just have to choose a little more wisely where you work. So I work in here Is that already have good light quality there. And if I can add to it with my strobes, then I can still do that, but easily, um, with use of the wagon. Or it's in an area where I know that the wind is being blocked a lot, so they're not gonna blow over. So I can I'm just finding areas that are I'm being smarter and not working harder on. And but that is kind of limiting. I mean, I love the places that you guys work. You mean you find something, You see something really cool. We can go and make something happen. There is we have enough hands. We have enough assistance toe to make it happen without causing damage to our equipment or anything else. So, um, I definitely have assistant envy eyes eso. That's something that I tried hard to add in.

spk_2:   13:56
And, Michael, you you probably don't want people have assistance because you know when they might their light might fall over, they might have to order another light. Like fixing that.

spk_0:   14:09
Yeah, you like that? Cuts

spk_1:   14:10
both ways because, oh, they broke the light. They need to buy a new one. Good. Oh, they broke the light. Can I fix it?

spk_2:   14:17
Yeah, that's that's

spk_1:   14:18
good. I do. I do repairs. Yeah, do repairs. But I don't like doing repairs, to be honest, you know, actually, that's what I'll do on some Saturday mornings is I'll set those aside to do repairs and just knock them all off. But, uh, yeah, I I didn't get into all those all the stuff that I do in photography to repairs

spk_2:   14:38
way stuff to make the cheese head

spk_0:   14:43
more right. Relating the actor, right? Talked

spk_1:   14:47
about this. And just so listeners know, you know, one of the common ones and one most common flashes used nowadays is the goat ox 8200 or the 8200 pro. And that's actually the one most commonly broken. Um, because a more people are using it, but also it sticks out of the back of the soft box. And if you don't have a weighted down with a sandbag or an assistant. It's a wind gust comes up and it falls backwards and falls right on the LCD panel and breaks that. So we have the idea off. You know, if you've seen Green Bay Packer games where people are wearing those foam cheeseheads, we could turn that into some sort of light protector. I actually reached out to those guys. I sent an email to formation the people who make the cheese heads to see if they would make us a cheese light protector. And the answer was no.

spk_2:   15:38
I thought they said yes, but it was, like, 20 grand or something. So

spk_0:   15:43
I know that I

spk_1:   15:45
talk to you. But it was like, Ah, by the time I looked into his, like, 50 grand minimum, I'm like, Ah, I don't

spk_2:   15:52
think so. That's not gonna happen. Yeah,

spk_0:   15:54
that's not well happen,

spk_1:   15:55
you know,

spk_2:   15:56
And we're real fortunate. You with go docks and Malloy to be able to, you know, go on location and go like I hiked the waterfalls and stuff and you can bring a 200 which is smaller, even Ah ah, 400. It is. It's not like the old days where you had a £20 battery. You had that feeling, Harry, with you and have great light in those those areas, so yeah,

spk_1:   16:22
but but breaking news. And this is actually slightly old news is you can have those days back again, because go, Dax, no docks is announced. I said go dack. Oh, my gosh. Go Docks is a sociable, sociable. Everybody have a drink. Um, go. Dex has announced the a D 1200 pro is a 1200 watt second portable flash, but to power 1200 watt seconds. It's got a lithium ion battery pack. That's £14.

spk_0:   17:00
Hey, I could use it as a music stand. Wait. Awesome.

spk_1:   17:04
Well Oh, absolutely. But think, think about 1200 watt seconds. So that would be the same thing as 6 82 hundreds. Holy crap. That's a lot of

spk_2:   17:14
you again. You promised there'd be no math during these. Exactly. Basically,

spk_1:   17:23
Dan, you could give somebody a if you fire demanding a full power,

spk_2:   17:28
Would they make your legs tan or they were gonna be Justus whiteness? No, no,

spk_1:   17:33
no, no. The Shin Fletcher's wth the deflectors will not accept light anymore. I don't know what it is.

spk_0:   17:41
My dad

spk_1:   17:42
was the same way I did. II realizes this last year is like I just thought because he never wore shorts. That much is like Is you have really white legs. I'm like, No, I think it's a genetic thing. I white legs.

spk_0:   17:53
So back to the thanks everybody at home having to think about that, you know, I do have, you know, like I said before, I require that people come along and I want Mom, and we're dad there for sure. I want Mom there, guys or girls, cause again. Who's gonna make the most of the sales? Um, decisions? The mom. And so I want her there because I'm selling while I'm photographing while I'm creating for sure and I But I have. I actually have Mom assist a lot of times, and I like to do that because they feel like they're part of it. Did they helped out? And I don't have Mom holding onto us till late. Stand a lot of times to keep it from blowing over, and I say, You know, this stuff is really expensive. We can't have a fall down. Plus, it has to be here to make sure your daughter your son looks their best ballot box and, you know, but they feel like they contributed a little bit. But it also keeps them the heck away from the scene here. Like you said before, right? They always Otherwise, they're over there fixing this and fixing that. It drives me crazy. Even when when my wife used to come with me to when I photographed weddings and she'd come along to help carry stuff around and speed things up a little bit, it would drive me crazy when she she's up there trying to fix the guy's shoe lace. I'm going, But I'm not even seeing their feet leave it on that. So I mean, we're all control freaks. I mean, we really are, because we're photographers and and tow, have assistants, do things that I want to have control of is hard for me to give up and and I don't want to. So, in demanding to people when I'm working, sweating, it is gonna be If I do get an assistant is gonna be a learning curve for me for sure, because I'm used to controlling everything and looking for everything at all at once. And ah um I really see where you guys. I mean, the benefits to it, I think, are enormous. Um, so I mean, but, you know, go for a damn radio.

spk_2:   19:59
Yeah. Why was this gonna mention some? Maybe some tips for hiring assistance and some things that that yeah, that I have learned through the years and implemented and and the number one requirement for an assistant is that they do not want anything to do with photography because I am not there too trained them that not that I don't want to train them. But during the session is not a time to be doing training of for them to be asking questions. If somebody wants to learn photography, I'll gladly mentor them and share everything I know with them. But during the session, I'm a kind is paying me to to create for them. So that's what's important. And another thing I don't want to do is to pay someone to train someone would show on my locations and everything. I learned to the years that I'll show up the next day or the year later and there in all my location. So I tend to also higher for my weaknesses and, you know, social media, you know, the older I get, you know, like learning Snapchat a few years ago in everything. That's like, Okay, if I can get ah high School kid in and they're in there throwing emojis and recording and uploading and doing everything again, I'm marketing at the same time I am shooting. And that's my strength of shooting, not social media at that time. And, like Karl said, OK, I'm also selling like, Oh, this would be a great campus portrait so I can communicate with the the parent. And I tell a parent like this high school kid, that's my assistant and I don't I don't come high school, kid. I introduced them and then, like, you know, here's my assistant is that her name is Nicole. She's gonna be helping out holding light second set of eyes fixing clothing as well as doing social media. So if they're on, uh, the phone, they're not texting in their boyfriend. They're actually working, and and that's part of it. And and that has helped grow my business so much because they're doing that. And the seniors love that, that that story like this I swear they was kind of sad. That's like they almost love that morning. The photos, it seems like cause it's they need instant gratification as you know what. I'm talking high school seniors because that's what I d'oh. So they have that story and and as they're changing poles that were driving from that location, they're looking at it and they're sharing it right away, and all their friends are seeing it. So if you don't do instagram stories or, um, staff such step jete stories, a really huge because it's kind of like Facebook used to be where you would take someone, it would go on their feet or their timeline. Facebook doesn't do that anymore, but instagram stories do, And so when they take or when they hash tag, it goes on their story and all their friends see it. And then they come back to my page of my instagram page and they started following me. So I pick up new followers in which our new leads every time I do a session. And so you know, hiring is important, you know. Ah, high school kid is is really important or if you have, like you know Carl, you talked about having its maybe sometimes hard to get someone and I get that as well. It's hard to be like, Hey, on Tuesday we have this or Hey, it's gonna It's raining today. So sorry. Ah, you can't come in. And can you come in two days from now? Because that's when they can come in. And so it is. A scheduling can be a scheduling nightmare. Um, I know, too. I I had another one. I go through assistant, like, every year because kids leave for college or I've had, like, stay at home, Mom,

spk_1:   23:29
or they've had enough.

spk_2:   23:30
Yeah, maybe that's the problem. Uh, yeah, that's probably more like it, you know, or like a stay at home Mom, you know what's a fun job they can. They can get a little break from from their kids and everything and come and hang out. It's it's really it's like fun for them. They're like, How you gonna pay me for this? And so there's a couple of tips there. I guess I wanted to share.

spk_1:   23:51
No, those are all good tips, and I'm just coming back to like the Instagram stories and the ah snap step Snapchat stories there. They're exciting because it's happening now, you know, especially being pop into a little live video than it's really. It's organic. They're not seeing the finished product, you know, that's all been smooth and perfect and all that stuff they're seeing, you know, like I said, look very wrong, organic and live stuff. And that's where you get the excitement building from all the friends. And, yeah, you get new followers of new clients from that. And that's one thing I think has been missing from mine because I haven't been doing ah, lot of the behind the scenes live from the scene because I've been focusing on having the assistant, like, do other stuff. But I like the idea of I like the idea of bringing a second person in for doing video. I don't know where I'd find

spk_2:   24:44
I'm not. Yeah, I'm searching right now. Plus, if you mentioned more light store, Molly will feature you on their instagram page and saying, OK, what did your mole lights do for you today?

spk_1:   24:58
That's exactly yet. Thank you for that, but not seriously if you use. If you use more like gear and you post something Thio, your instagram story or just your regular instagram feed and you tag at mo light on underscore store Polite store. I almost always pick it up and reposted into my instagram story too. So there you go. Looks extra exposure.

spk_0:   25:22
So just out of curiosity, folks that work with the assistance and everything, what should we expect to pay them, or how do we expect to pay them? And you came like a normal employee. Pay him by the hour by the by the session. How does it all work? I usually

spk_1:   25:37
do it by the gig. So for me, um, I usually do like a three hour senior session, but by the time they show up early and we travel back and it's usually four hours, so I'm usually paying 40 bucks, Um, I don't Damn. What are you

spk_2:   25:53
doing? I pay in candy. I mean, I have a beer,

spk_0:   25:57
and then, you know, our

spk_2:   25:58
hey, which, like a memory I have.

spk_0:   26:01
And it's not a tree for you. I'm just saying

spk_2:   26:07
I need an assistant. I feel like I'm a creepy old man. I can't figure it out. Why? Yeah, yeah. No, seriously. I ii pay per hour, and, um, you just pay him. I pay him 10 bucks an hour. Ah, and they love it because it's a fun job and it doesn't feel like a job. You know, we're outside. It's summer. It's generally beautiful and they're doing it. They're doing social media, which they do every day, and they're holding the light like it's it's It's not difficult work, um, at all. So they they love it, that the hardest part is the scheduling. As Carlo mentioned as well as you know, if they are going off to college, they leave around mid August, you know, and or there or there busy. You know, a lot of kids have. You have regular jobs, which he can supply more hours, and I can supply to them. Eso It's just that's why I go through Well, that's why I say, Why go through so many seniors? But maybe It'scause I'm creepy or so many assistance, But you know it is, You know, I like this year I just hired ah senior than photographed last year at my Kate. What are you doing for the summer? And she's like, You know, I I'm looking for a second job. So a lot of them, the last seniors, will have one job. But they want, oh, pick up maybe a second job for a little extra income because they know they're going off to college, and every little bit helps for them. Uh, other times I've had just interns where you don't pay them at all. But I want to pay them because I want them to feel as though they're really contributing in their part of it. And that's another thing I always always say, You know, I'll relay information back to them because they don't see the sale session and they don't always get the here like all the good comments. So it's always we as a team, like, you know, we really did a great job or, you know, they really I want to pass the sound like you know, Jocelyn said that she really loved working with you in In the in. The mom said they love working with us because they felt comfortable and they had a great experience, and it's important to not only just pay them but you, you know, let them know those those good comments that are coming in because they're not around at those times. And we always joked to of having like, a little party afterwards because they never get to really see the final images they're watching on social media and like, Oh, cool, that's how that turned out. But we always talk about, um, you know, they're usually back to college, but I should put it like a slide show. Like, here's all the images we shot this year. You know, my favorite. Yeah, you know, pop some popcorn and watch it, Um, because because there are part of it and they feel a part of it.

spk_1:   28:44
So mostly, we've been talking about using assistance with Senior Portrait's. Because why, Dan, you're almost almost exclusively seniors so big part of what I do. It's a big part of what Carl does. But there's other types of photography out there, too, you know, for example, family portrait. Yeah, there's there's that boudoir. So But, you know, thinking about those other those other genres family portrait. I never use an assistant for family portrait ce I can't I I shouldn't say never. I can't think the last time I did, um, newborns. I don't do that. Many newborns, but I never use an assistant for that head shots I used to. When I did head shots on location, I'd be going on location and maybe doing 50 to 100 head shots. I would taken assistant just to, you know, right down the choices. I stopped doing that, you know, because it was they really weren't doing that much. And I got my lighting kit down again, thanks to my life and all the goat ox flashes. Um, I got my lighting kit down to be very portable so I could haul that stuff on location by myself. So new. No need for an assistant. So it didn't, You know, I think weddings. Um, I see. I've from day one, I've always believed in having a second shooter, not only an assistant, but somebody else, somebody else who's, um, experienced photographer. Because I think getting the story told from two different angles is important. Um, almost always have worked with a female second shooter because the bride's getting her dress on female second shooter could be with the bride. I could be if the groomsmen, it's not awkward. You know, I embarrass easily, So, um yeah, and I've been with brides are like

spk_0:   30:36
I'm not embarrassed at all. So how are you doing? You put that back off?

spk_2:   30:45
Yeah. So that's a really good point. And senior photography is completely different. And again, that's what I mostly do. So, yeah, that is if I do head shots and different things. Or when I did weddings. The second shooter, you know, was key toe. Always have, You know, that different angle. So, yeah, those were some good points that you brought up about, you know? Depends on what you're what you're niches and what you photographed

spk_0:   31:11
used. I still do photograph some volume things, Um, like the youth sports and dance and stuff like that. And we always had an assistant come along with that or two because you would need to keep track of all the kids and make sure all the slips came in order. So when we went to place the orders, we Circe number 13 on here. That's because we don't know the kids. You don't know the kids that. I mean, you don't know all of them and you had to make sure that the orders stayed in line with the right person and all that. But now even that's out the window for me. Because now I'm working the photo day and it doesn't matter whatsoever what order they're in, because their order in their own images from our online gallery, they find their own kid with facial recognition technology has been really cool as far as my assistance are concerned. So, um you know, I mean, it's great, and, you know, let's let's carry this unit further. Um, it's not just assistance for creation or capture, but I mean, like my retouching. I farm out to people, and I mean, my lab has, I mean, all the different products and things like that that I work with. I make sure that I gore the trade shows I go to the live event so we can visit with different people that have different service's and products that can help me be smarter about my business and allow me to concentrate on you know, photography and let the penalty things are the things that I don't want to do or don't I can't do. I let somebody else do it. I pay them forward. So I mean, they're part of staff, part of assistance as well.

spk_1:   32:50
Oh, absolutely. And that's a good way of putting it. Because most of us, I would have to say, I think it's pretty safe saying most of us are lone wolves where entrepreneurs were individuals working on her own. I'd say the majority of the marketplace as photographers is comprised of people like us. You know, we're we're We're not a big retail studio where you've got eight employees or 10 employees or 20 employees. It's usually Singleton's, so your assistance can be beyond photo assistance. They can be retouching service like Rebeuh. Um, it could be a service like photo Day. For people who are doing volume, You can just be your general lab. You know, that's that you're sending your images off to to have printed in all these different partnerships that you have helped make your business run more efficiently, but also make your business bigger in scope because we're in the gig economy now where you know you can off off, um, offset her. I I just have a horse is what I'm trying to say. Outsource. Thank you. That's the word

spk_2:   33:55
I got you.

spk_1:   33:56
I was thinking about saying it offshore, but anyway, where you

spk_0:   34:00
could be sociable. Everybody have a drink. Um, so you know, and

spk_1:   34:07
I've even done that with some of the design. I do some design myself. But, you know, one of things I struggle with is logos. I've never been a great logo designer sauce in that auto fiver or someplace like that. Get some logos, don't get him back. And I go, Well, those suck, and then I'll pay them anyway. And then I'll take their idea and make a better. So what leads to get you started somewhere,

spk_2:   34:30
So I'm gonna throw it a quote. I'm not good with quotes, so don't quote me on this quote, but somewhere I heard, Ah, you're never make a $1,000,000 doing $10 in our jobs. And you know, so that you know the premise behind it, if it's not obvious, is not only in your photographer outsourcing things in your photography business, But if you're cutting your own lawn or fertilizing own lawn or grocery shopping, there's like you can do online ordering now. We just started that a few months ago. It's great. You just pull in and everything is there for you. It doesn't cost you anything but the time. What's your time worth? What can on Lee you do and outsource the rest. And you really focus on, you know, doing what only you can do. And if its retouching yeah, removing pimples, Rebeuh coup for you know, 60 cents or 2 50 a person, like Come on, Why used? Why you doing that? You know, And like I said, beyond photography, you know, I still enjoy cutting my lawn because it to me, it's it's meditation, but I don't fertilize my lawn. In fact, I traded out. That's another thing you can trade. So I trade family portrait CE with a friend of mine who has a lot fertilizing business, and he gets family portrait for me. We have a running tab I haven't paid for three years now to get my lawn fertilized and, you know, just outsource and be efficient with your dime.

spk_1:   35:55
That's one of the things that I just kind of sets me off when I see, and I shouldn't say it makes me angry, but it just makes me hurt inside when I see so many newer photographers and even some people who aren't all that new talking about there up until two o'clock in the morning, three o'clock in the morning editing, and I just It just crushes me inside. And I think why? Why don't you value yourself? Number one? Why don't you value yourself and your health? And why don't you value your time with your family to be spending all this time Now, with some of that summer, they're gonna come back and say, Well, I spent time with my family. Then I go back to work at 10 o'clock after the kids are in bed and I'm doing this editing till two o'clock in the morning

spk_0:   36:38
and I get

spk_1:   36:39
that. I understand that that's a sacrifice. But you know what? Have somebody else do it. I mean, you know the mantra I always have when I teach other photographers when it comes to like, Photoshopping stuff is what I'm using. Photo shop. I want to be an artist. I don't want to be a mechanic. Mechanic fixes things, you know. So and I don't work on my cars. I used to change my oil and all that stuff. It's like I haven't done that in years because it's a hell of a lot cheaper to have somebody else to do it. Right. Um, so don't be a mechanic. If you're spending all this time in front of computer and you're not creating right now, we're in front of the computer. But guess what we're doing. We're creating for creating contract drinking. Yo, multitasking just didn't tell you guys that were. I didn't tell you guys that we're

spk_2:   37:26
recording. It gives us an excuse to drink a drink. Hey, earlier in the day, we're working here. I'm sorry. This'd work. Sorry. Your

spk_0:   37:39
cheers. This is fine. Crystal on. Actually.

spk_2:   37:45
Great. How we work this into work, like, Hey, I have to go recorded podcast. I'm point about the line here.

spk_0:   37:54
This'll is got, like,

spk_1:   37:57
the new version of, like, back and back in the fifties and sixties, when the guys would leave the house is like, Well, I'm going down to the Elks Club, you know, because we've got some important business to his networking drink and play cards called networking. This'll modern day version of that

spk_2:   38:14
Exactly. Kind of like expanding And what you said, Michael, you know your business too. It depends like if you are known for, say, composites or montages in in only I can make a montage, for instance. But I charge a create creative fee. So I have that built in. If you are up all night long editing, we're not shaming you. But just make sure that that's built into your cost of goods in your session or somewhere where you're getting paid for that time. Because, yeah, if you're an artist and you're, you know, editing those images and only you can create that look, you can't outsource that. That's okay. We're not saying that that's not okay, But just make sure you're getting paid for that time, and you're also aware of and speaking from experience that you're not, ah, 100% in on your business. And that's a higher priority than your family. You know, in your life

spk_1:   39:09
or your home.

spk_2:   39:10
Your health. Yes, yes, exactly.

spk_1:   39:12
Over. Yeah, a good clarification on that, too, because there are certain things that, like you said, only we can do. And but if it's stuff that somebody else could do, like cleaning up zits and stray hairs, man, it's so inexpensive. Doubt source that now and then, if the first response is well, I can't afford that, then you're gonna look at your pricing. Gotta build because it's two bucks. You know, our buck 50 year. Whatever source. Some of the stuff for image man. You gotta be charging enough to make you be able to make that

spk_0:   39:44
on. You should have been charging for that same race arm or whether it was done by a note source or by yourself. You know, I mean, I write this sounds bad and their guests don't wanna hear this, but I make money off of pain re book. You do it Retouch my images, you know, you know, $15 for the client, and it's cost me 2 50 So we're not even that It cost me six. Whatever. What is it now? 60. Some sense, you know, just 60 some sun for But that being said, I still look at everything you are still in charge of at the quality control. So, um, don't be the one that sends things out and sends it right to the lab without looking at it. Um, quality control still comes from you, no matter what.

spk_1:   40:31
Absolutely. Yeah. And even when it comes to things like headshots, cause I do a lot of head shots that I have one person come in for a head shot. I'm gonna retouch that single headshot versus Send that Because about the time I send it up and to reboot, do they do it? I get it back. I could have done it, but I just did a gig where I did 25 head shots. Um, no, I didn't retouch a single one of those. Those all went to reboot. Do they cost me a dollar 20 each, I think, for the service's I selected. Got those back. Looked at him. I think there was one. I probably went and did a little something to done. Quality control is part of my brand and then sent those to the client. You know, I didn't have to be up late. Had 25 head shots from touching those over. Ah, Uh,

spk_2:   41:21
yeah, and truth be told, like I outsource a lot of things, but I also waste a lot of time on Facebook and stuff. D'oh! Hey, I got up and I should be using that time a little bit more efficiently, like, Hey, I outsource this and then wait, wait. I just wasted an hour on Facebook like that wasn't very efficient use of my time. So, full disclaimer there. Um, I'm not a number. It's a number, Right? But yeah. So kind of back to assistance. Is there other things that, you know, we talked about weddings we talked about, you know, seniors and other family things. What us comes kind of comes to mind.

spk_1:   42:03
Oh, there's one other thought and we touched on this, and I meant to bring this up before, but, um, we talked about having somebody to hold on to the light stand so your light doesn't fall over and get broken. Um, how much does that cost? Because, you know, I'll hear off, and I can't afford to have an assistant yet. I've had to repair this flash three times for you now. And you had to buy a new one. You know, brand new flash costs. What? The repair costs. What? Ah, the time that you have. Where you didn't have that flash, you know, available to you, maybe cost you work. So there's different costs in different ways. And to me, I've always looked as at an assistant to just a small cost of assistant for me is an insurance policy against broken stuff. Um, I don't get stuff broken. I mean, I I treat my gear pretty well, but I don't get stuff. The

spk_0:   43:02
only time I've had

spk_1:   43:02
stuff broken. Quite honestly, guys is one of top workshops, and I've asked somebody at the workshop to hang onto a light stand, and then they go under. I had this happen. It? Yeah, they I hadn't happened at after dark in Madison. I had I heard my flash blow over and looked at the dude I said, I thought you had a hold of that. It's like, Well, I did. It's like, Well, fell over is like, Why wasn't holding it then?

spk_0:   43:24
Well, that was the point. Hold onto

spk_1:   43:27
a fire the whole time. Yeah, And then I had it happen. Um, teaching a workshop in Syracuse. Same kind of

spk_2:   43:35
thing. Or or have the light cart like Carl has,

spk_0:   43:40
right? If it's too windy to bowl that over, you shouldn't be out. Photograph. What is that thing? I've always looked

spk_1:   43:48
at that have admired it, but what stopped me from doing the same thing is thinking of lifting that into the truck.

spk_0:   43:54
Yeah. What is that thing away. Um, I'm gonna guess. Probably own 70 or 80 bones. Uh, it's it's hefty. And I mean that, of course. The light stand comes off it and it slides and separately, but But it also takes a six and 1/2 foot truck box to get it on. Um, now, that being said, I do have a new option. Um, I've found ah, wheelchair rams That or it's the electronic wheelchairs, air powered wheelchairs, whatever they have. Ah, you're going to get a trailer hitch. Um, I was like the shelf for the back of your truck, whatever, you know, like like we brought in our Texas thing. Your weight. Oh, yeah. So you have that. But it has a ramp that folds out, That's all. Yeah. Ah, this is the ideal. I could just waving that thing right up onto their strap it down and off we go to the next place. And in some places, I'm not driving that far that fast. Like I might hear in these light on it. It's, uh,

spk_1:   44:58
well, that ties into one of my long term plans. As I get older. If I get to the point where I really can't get around anymore. I really thought I'd get are like an all terrain Rask.

spk_2:   45:07
Yeah, right.

spk_1:   45:08
You know, having those retirement communities outside and I'm gonna put like, a model pod. Yeah, I know, but I'm gonna put a model pot on that. Just took the camera onto that and put a put a telescoping light on the back of it. Oh, I just would always do. I'd always do butterfly light

spk_0:   45:22
e. I fell into place. If you go into Home Depot in the spring, you get everyone they're putting out there. Ah, deck furniture and stuff. And you see the deck umbrellas, you know? So you crank them buggers out everything I thought, Oh, do we could get that on a side by side or on a four wheeler 1,000,000. Our lawn tractor, round care. But we're even trailer hitch that sucker. And I can I can do with that thing to stop all the down line you drink. That has There's something I have, like, a boom. Now that you can bring it out over the top of that, this would be ideal, but yeah, that may be a little overkill. You're

spk_2:   45:59
next tax deductible investment will be a side by side. It's and a home people umbrella.

spk_0:   46:05
I'm still trying to convince my wife about that, that I need a side by side for holding the light. She hasn't bought into that yet. I don't know. I I got a psych work myself. Yeah, I go to work or you didn't work out Well, no,

spk_1:   46:20
not you might have to explain to the city folk. With aside

spk_0:   46:22
by souped up for Baylor, it's XJ If that's not a Jeep that goes in the woods and, yeah, it's a souped up vehicle for off roading, more or less so And here's something for you too, by the way, just again to watch out for, uh, because I found out Ah, uh, by accident. Um, when I was changing insurance companies up here and they're looking at our vehicles and stuff like that and they said, Well, do you use this one for business? I said, Yeah. And he said, Well, you need to have a ah commercial insurance policy for this. You know, this is all gonna change from state to state and things like that. So check your laws. Check with your your your your lawyers and everything your insurance people. But I also found out that when I was old on photographing sessions, whether it's an assistant that's riding with me or a guest, um, the personal insurance Ah, that I had already coverage would not have covered them if we had gotten in an accident. Um, so it was an eye opener for me, for sure. So if you have an assistant that it was hopping in the car with you and going from location location, I would definitely check into that. I would talk to insurance agency. Hey, this is what we're doing. Are we covered? Um, just make sure because I had no idea. Ah, and I'm so glad nothing ever happened All the years that we mean, we always have people happen, our vehicle and we drive. And, um and now we can I mean, I've got it set up, so it's it's taken care of. But, um, it certainly wasn't correct before for how Michigan was, And I'm sure maybe other states are similar, So make sure you check into that, too.

spk_1:   48:10
Yeah, that's a good point. And slight tangent, but I think important, um, with a home based studio like I have residential studio. Um, we end up having all of our insurance through one company because of that, because part of the space is studio in business are the spaces home? Here's the problem. If you've got homeowner's insurance and business insurance from two different companies and something happens, who is going to cover it? And what you're gonna find is they're gonna fight each other and trying to point to the other ones. So, um, because you've got your inland Marine, if you don't know if that is really need to talk Insurance agent looking up, Um, and your your your personal liability umbrella and your business, all the liability and all that stuff. Um, so we've got all through State Farm, which I'm sure we're paying a little extra for somewhere in there, But all of our vehicles or state farm, the home state farm. The liability is State Farm, the ah, Inland Marina State Farm. My truck is owned by the corporation. The corporation rent space from us personally. That's a whole different thing. Um, but it's all tied up legally, and it's all covered, but I do need to look up the thing you're talking about, Carl, because I wonder.

spk_2:   49:27
Yeah, that's a really, really good point. And because I used to have seniors jump in with me because it was just easier as we're going and driving downtown and jumping from location to location instead of having someone follow and everything, and then I'm like, Oh, I got to stop doing this. It's a liability. So I have everyone follow me. But I didn't think of the assistant and how that, you know, played out in, you know, the assistance I hire to I kind of they're like, independent contractors, so I don't really They're not really on my payroll, per se, but I'll have to check into that because they file everything you know on their own, but yeah, that's an excellent point. I'll have to check into that

spk_0:   50:09
just to be safe. You gotta protect yourself, that's all.

spk_1:   50:12
All right. Any parting

spk_0:   50:13
shots, shots, shot time? No school. Yeah. Um, I don't

spk_1:   50:25
have anything so much. You guys

spk_0:   50:26
know. I just know now that I want an assistant. Darn it, I have assistant envy Ellison. So I think you're right. I think I I think the direction I'm gonna go is what we're doing. That pointing out. And I don't I definitely don't want I never have wanted a photographer assistant. I just I don't want that. Um, you know, we'd be butting heads for artists, and we also have two different ideas all too many times. Um, but I think having somebody that is huge and really gung ho about social media right now would be hugely advantageous, um, to the marketing in the back end and the adventure of it all. And I think maybe that's the direction I'm gonna head. So for those of you there are, like me and diving into this assistant thought process, maybe that would be a way to go.

spk_1:   51:13
All right, well, that's all we got for this week. I just want to give thanks to our sponsor, Mama. Lockers. Breakfast cordials with flavors like blueberry pancake in maple bacon. Liquor isn't just for breakfast anymore. Or is it Bill? Next time. Thanks for listening to the photo happy. Our

spk_0:   51:33
last call.

spk_1:   51:36
You've been listening to the photo Happy Hour podcast. Be sure to hit that subscribe button to

spk_0:   51:41
not miss a single action packed episode and join our photo happy our Facebook group, where we'll post links to the stuff we all talk about. You confined my mo like here online at www dot goma light dot com. That's G o M o L i g h t dot com. You can find the Facebook page under Moonlight Store, and I also run the Go Doc Splash Help Group on Facebook. You confined Dan Sr Unlocked website at www dot seniors unlocked dot com that seniors with an S at the end, unlocked dot com and the Facebook group under Seniors on lock, and you could find Karl's coaching Corner at www dot cc photo coach dot com cc photo coach dot com Until next time Cheers to you.